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  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by Spazturtle View Post
    How would putting the firmware on a chip be any more Free/Libre?
    Unknown, but according to Stallman or other Free/Libre proponents it's like that. Suff in ROMs is ok, stuff loaded at runtime is not. Even if it is the same.

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  • lucrus
    replied
    Originally posted by dungeon View Post

    but to be Free/Libre friendly that means any kind of blob software isn't there.
    it does not mean that, at least to me. There are different levels of friendlyness, and firmware can be considered effectively hardware in some cases. I'm not sure about the AMD case, but I feel like the AMD firmware is more hardware-ish than nVidia, thanks to the AMD attitude towards the community. Nvidia releases signed firmwares for their cards for nouveau only when they are forced to have some patch accepted into the next Linux kernel. That way they can prove the patch is useful to at least one piece of free/libre software, e.g. nouveau. That ain't any free/libre philosophy endorsement, it's just working around the rules and providing the least support needed to gain what you want in exchange.

    On the other hand AMD regularly releases free/libre driver code for their hardware, along with proprietary firmware. Yes, the driver can't work without the firmware, but then again, it can't work even if you pull out the graphics card! And the graphics card itself can't work without the firmware, but it can work and provide full features you have payed for, without a proprietary driver.

    I know the difference between firmware-seen-as-software and firmware-seen-as-hardware does not lie there, but graphics cards firmware does not directly talk to the Linux kernel, and having only free software at OS level is already a huge advantage to me.

    I'd like to have a world where all and every bit of software/firmware is free, but we're just not there yet. The best we have for PC graphics today is AMD, friendlyness-wise. And I'm very happy we have that, so I feel like AMD is free/libre friendly. Maybe not 100%, but it is orders of magnitude more friendly than nVidia.

    My next purchase will be a polaris or vega card and I'm going to suggest AMD to everyone, be it for Linux or any other OS use.
    Last edited by lucrus; 05-14-2017, 06:58 AM.

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  • dungeon
    replied
    Originally posted by Spazturtle View Post
    How would putting the firmware on a chip be any more Free/Libre?
    It is about respect to some group of people in this case Free/Libre, because who does not give respect to others should not expect any kind respect in return also

    Stating something as friendly to Free/Libre, but everybody knows their stance on blob matters is already is total disrespect
    Last edited by dungeon; 05-13-2017, 09:07 AM.

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  • Spazturtle
    replied
    Originally posted by dungeon View Post

    It is not question about me and not about practicality, but about Free/Libre mentioned there driver to be "friendly" which is not true.

    Column shoud say there "No (blob firmware required)" instead of "Yes" Even just that would be much more Free/Libre friendly, than stating something incorrectly
    How would putting the firmware on a chip be any more Free/Libre?

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  • dungeon
    replied
    Originally posted by Spazturtle View Post

    So would rather it be stored on a chip where you still can't see the code and it doesn't get updated so you are stuck with the bugs.
    It is not question about me and not about practicality, but about Free/Libre mentioned there driver to be "friendly" which is not true.

    Column shoud say there "No (blob firmware required)" instead of "Yes" Even just that would be much more Free/Libre friendly, than stating something incorrectly
    Last edited by dungeon; 05-13-2017, 08:54 AM.

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  • Spazturtle
    replied
    Originally posted by dungeon View Post

    I understand practicality, that is Windows and MacOS also... but to be Free/Libre friendly that means any kind of blob software isn't there.
    So would rather it be stored on a chip where you still can't see the code and it doesn't get updated so you are stuck with the bugs.

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  • dungeon
    replied
    Originally posted by Spazturtle View Post

    Because the device needs it to work, and having it loaded at runtime is better then having it stored on a chip on the device.
    I understand practicality, that is Windows and MacOS also... but to be Free/Libre friendly that means any kind of blob software isn't there.

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  • Spazturtle
    replied
    Originally posted by dungeon View Post

    If it is not, why you use it? Why not remove it?
    Because the device needs it to work, and having it loaded at runtime is better then having it stored on a chip on the device.

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  • dungeon
    replied
    Originally posted by Spazturtle View Post
    1) Firmware isn't part of the driver.
    If it is not, why you use it? Why not remove it?

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  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by Serafean View Post
    1) Driver is useless without firmware, so it effectively is.
    2) yes. At that point it becomes hardware.
    2 was a wrong question, the actual question is "do you think reflashing the GPU chips every now and then when they update the blobs or face breakage is acceptable for the world at large".
    Because that's one of the reason why most devices have firmwares loaded at runtime.

    Leave a comment:

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