Guess what? Yet another disgruntled Fedora+ATI Customer

[panda84]

yes you should blame Fedora!

Xorg 7.4 isn't even released. So it is there fault to include half broken non-releases and turning it users in pre-alpha testers.

And you can't blame AMD for not supporting software that is not even released!

So Fedora fucked up - again.

Indeed, I think we should not blame nor Fedora nor AMD.

Fedora 8 _is still_ actively supported and works with the AMD driver.

Fedora _is_ intended to be fast evolving as one of its stated objectives is the following: ?Fedora is a center for innovation in free and open source software, and creates a community where developers and open source enthusiasts come together to advance free and open source software.?

So Fedora _is not_ intended for the end users. The ~13 months supports is self explanatory about this aspect. ;-)

So should we really blame a distribution for trying to be what it aims to be?

I think not, as everybody, even Fedora developers, will suggest you a more supported distribution if you want to run a production system.

Bye,
Diego.

P.S.: If you want to be sure that Fedora is not intended to be "a product for end users" and instead aims to be a place to "help free software to advance" you can read the inteview with Paul Frields.

http://tinyurl.com/5lmxzm

Here you are a quote:
?Softpedia: How does Fedora intend to overtake Ubuntu?

Paul W. Frields: Interestingly, this question assumes that Fedora's goals, and the way we achieve them, are exactly the same as Ubuntu's. Like Ubuntu, we have millions of users. We're able to report that, based on the entirely open source technologies we use for our project. The key to Fedora's strategy is realizing that doubling our number of users doesn't help advance free and open source software as much as doubling the number of active contributors. The work those contributors do creates a far better experience with Linux, and that work reaches audiences through many channels besides just the Fedora Project. Some technology examples include NetworkManager, PackageKit, IcedTea and OpenJDK 6, and ext4. You can see these technologies in distributions other than Fedora, which shows the impact this "culture of contribution" idea is having across FOSS.?

[m4rgin4l]

I use Fedora for the following reasons (in the intended order):

* It's one of the few truly free distros.
* They always include the latest of what free software has to offer.
* Amazing support for Java developers.

The thing with including the latest (released or otherwise) versions of the software means that you get to try the newest stuff. Sometimes this work, like with KDE 4.0 that sucked really hard when F9 was released, but now we have KDE 4.1 which is fantastic; but sometimes it doesn't, like with Xorg 7.4.

IMHO including Xorg 7.4 was a mistake. Although there's a lot to gain from it, specially in terms of performance, if you look at the latest news (http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=NjYzNw) we're not even sure how the final product is going to look.

But someone has to innovate, and some of us are willing to pitch in by trying the newest stuff and reporting bugs. In the case of Fedora 9, when I still had my NVIDIA card, I could do it since they're drivers worked, with my HD4850, I can't.

As someone answered to me before, the fault in this case is mine. You can't try the latest software with the latest hardware.

Luckily for me the solution is simple and not painful at all: Switching to a supported distro like Ubuntu, and wait it out. I'm sure the card will eventually work with closed-source o open-source drivers and Xorg 7.4.

[energyman]

how compares fedora's java support to gentoo's? With gentoo I can switch jdks on the fly. java-config and done. Every user can set his java implementation - and there is a different one for the system. And Fedora foremost includes pre-release broken stuff. They used the fedora users as guinea pigs for selinux - so the RHEL users wouldn't complain. They are abusing fedora users alpha-testing known broken kernel features (4k stacks anyone) - again for the benift of the RHEL users.

Are you really comfortable with that?

[Redeeman]

how compares fedora's java support to gentoo's? With gentoo I can switch jdks on the fly. java-config and done. Every user can set his java implementation - and there is a different one for the system. And Fedora foremost includes pre-release broken stuff. They used the fedora users as guinea pigs for selinux - so the RHEL users wouldn't complain. They are abusing fedora users alpha-testing known broken kernel features (4k stacks anyone) - again for the benift of the RHEL users.

Are you really comfortable with that?

if people dont test stuff it will never be "stable". bugs needs finding, reporting, and fixing. Stuff needs testing, that is the purpose of fedora, and the users know it, and if they dont, they didnt really spend any time making the choice for distribution.

are you saying that kernel.org abuses me when i choose to fetch rc1 and run?

[Kano]

Well the view of ATI is just differnet than yours I would like to see more current support of kernels and Xorg versions. But maybe only 1 person is working on it and has got no time for this The poor guy may have to do all alone without any help *g*

[m4rgin4l]

how compares fedora's java support to gentoo's? With gentoo I can switch jdks on the fly. java-config and done. Every user can set his java implementation - and there is a different one for the system. And Fedora foremost includes pre-release broken stuff. They used the fedora users as guinea pigs for selinux - so the RHEL users wouldn't complain. They are abusing fedora users alpha-testing known broken kernel features (4k stacks anyone) - again for the benift of the RHEL users.

Are you really comfortable with that?

Yup. I'm quite comfortable. RedHat puts a lot of effort and money to make Linux a kickass OS. I think it's only fair that we give a little back.

Please notice that not only RedHat benefits from the Fedora users, but all the distros. A lot of the reported bugs are fixed upstream and everyone can see what failed with Fedora and not repeat the same mistakes.

[m4rgin4l]

Well. I just finished installing Ubuntu, and the closed-source drivers work like a charm. Now it's time to take OpenArena or Nexuiz for a test-drive

If AMD/ATI eventually needs someone to test the Xorg 7.4 support (w/ Fedora), count me in.

[energyman]

there is one thing to download an rc kernel and another one to make a distri from unreleased stuff and known broken kernel options.

---
Fedora is a Linux-based operating system that showcases the latest in free and open source software. Fedora is always free for anyone to use, modify, and distribute. It is built by people across the globe who work together as a community: the Fedora Project. The Fedora Project is open and anyone is welcome to join.
The Fedora Project is out front for you, leading the advancement of free, open software and content.

----

see? nothing about 'broken by design' or 'testbed for RHEL'.

Other distris are also 'testing' stuff - without being based on unsupportable, unreleased software.

And if some distri uses unreleased, unsupportable software, nobody should complain if a driver written for released software doesn't work.

EDIT: and I still would like to know how fedora handles different jdk/jre and how do you switch on the fly.

[panda84]

Please stop it energyman: this is not a distro war thread!

You hate Fedora, now we all know that. What do we get out of it? Nothing. So please stop your ranting.

[energyman]

no, I hate people who use pre-release software and then whine that some drivers don't work.


And I still would like to know how do you handle several jdk/jre in fedora and switch on the fly.