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AMD Reportedly Plans To Bring Mantle To Linux, Calls Mantle An Open-Source API

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  • #61
    Originally posted by profoundWHALE View Post
    DMAs are great for transporting information around
    CPUs are great for serial workloads/glue code
    GPUs are great for massively parallel workloads.
    FTFY.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
      Nvidia's hardware doesn't share much of anything with any of AMD's architecture.
      GCN is way nearer on Nv than you think, aside from that Mantle surley uses all the features that were missing on older AMD, eg. the memory change so nv support should be way better to implement than on the old AMD Architectures.
      AMD even said that Mantle doesn't work on Xbox One and we know that uses GCN.
      Because the os vendor doesn't expose it.
      Games on Windows using Mantle aren't seeing massive performance boosts. So why care about it when DX12 and OpenGL5 promises similar performance gains as Mantle?
      Maybe if you test on an system with drastically oversized CPU, other than that I would call it massive, depending on the system it can save GPU generation change.
      Mantle uses DirectX HLSL, so it's not entirely a new API. Though it would be interesting if Wine can take advantage of that for a performance boost.
      No, or has wine support for anything higher than Dx9?

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      • #63
        Why even bother with Mantle, OpenGL already has extensions exposing similar functionality in addition to loads of other new features. Bindless graphics, pioneered by Nvidia (and now partly supported by AMD), is the direction of the future. Bindless graphics reduces the need for API calls which eliminates the overhead all together, while Mantle just reduce some of the overhead. Direct3D 12 will expose similar features of some of the optimizations already exposed by OpenGL.

        There is no need for Mantle, and it's already an outdated API. The way of the future is implementing everything in shader programs, not attempting to increase the number of API calls.

        AMD have been calling Mantle "open" for a while, but there is still nothing to see. And now AMD are thinking about adding support for Linux, and they *might* start implementing it in a few months. By the time Mantle arrives it will be even more outdated than today. AMD need to focus on their OpenGL support and throw Mantle away.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by efikkan View Post
          Why even bother with Mantle, OpenGL already has extensions exposing similar functionality in addition to loads of other new features. Bindless graphics, pioneered by Nvidia (and now partly supported by AMD), is the direction of the future. Bindless graphics reduces the need for API calls which eliminates the overhead all together, while Mantle just reduce some of the overhead. Direct3D 12 will expose similar features of some of the optimizations already exposed by OpenGL.

          There is no need for Mantle, and it's already an outdated API. The way of the future is implementing everything in shader programs, not attempting to increase the number of API calls.

          AMD have been calling Mantle "open" for a while, but there is still nothing to see. And now AMD are thinking about adding support for Linux, and they *might* start implementing it in a few months. By the time Mantle arrives it will be even more outdated than today. AMD need to focus on their OpenGL support and throw Mantle away.
          Binding is actually a characteristic of OpenGL/D3D. I'm not sure how you make the connection to Mantle and even call it outdated, esp. when you self say there is nothing to see about Mantle so far?
          Are you maybe one of this trolls from the internet I got warned about?

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          • #65
            Originally posted by efikkan View Post
            Why even bother with Mantle, OpenGL already has extensions exposing similar functionality in addition to loads of other new features. Bindless graphics, pioneered by Nvidia (and now partly supported by AMD), is the direction of the future. Bindless graphics reduces the need for API calls which eliminates the overhead all together, while Mantle just reduce some of the overhead. Direct3D 12 will expose similar features of some of the optimizations already exposed by OpenGL.

            There is no need for Mantle, and it's already an outdated API. The way of the future is implementing everything in shader programs, not attempting to increase the number of API calls.

            AMD have been calling Mantle "open" for a while, but there is still nothing to see. And now AMD are thinking about adding support for Linux, and they *might* start implementing it in a few months. By the time Mantle arrives it will be even more outdated than today. AMD need to focus on their OpenGL support and throw Mantle away.
            You clearly dont understand why Mantle is such a big deal. Mantle multithreads the GPU workload allowing more slower cores to do the same work that 1 heavy IPC core used to do.

            This lets AMD and Intel concentrate on multicore performance vs IPC which has hit a brick wall.

            While the new OGL extensions work very well OGL would have to be completely rewritten in order to multithread. Since AMD is going to bring Mantle to Linux why not use it. Mantle API translates well to console also. PS4 is OGL so NV is covered too.

            Mantle + OGL is where it's at. AMD gets it's optimizations. Nvidia gets theirs. Everyone is happy. Cross platform everything and optimized with no coding headaches.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Kraut View Post
              Binding is actually a characteristic of OpenGL/D3D. I'm not sure how you make the connection to Mantle and even call it outdated, esp. when you self say there is nothing to see about Mantle so far?
              Are you maybe one of this trolls from the internet I got warned about?
              The point is, bindless graphics eliminates the need for binding which reduces the overhead and cache inefficiency, and therefore eliminates the need for Mantle all together. Using bindless graphics, the shader can access millions of texture and buffers directly through pointers. This allows the GPU itself to do efficient cache usage and data fetching, instead of this being controlled by the driver. It should be obvious to any programmer that removing the need for CPU interaction will boost performance.
              BTW, I researched this stuff in my thesis.

              If you are familiar with how shader programs revolutionized computer graphics, you know it was by moving computational complexity from the CPU to programming the GPU directly, and reducing the need for API calls. Bindless graphics is taking this a step further. The final goal is having a pipeline completely implemented in a shader language, controlling the execution of the pipeline stages from the GPU. We are still not there yet, but Maxwell and probably AMD's new architecture will take small steps in that direction.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by grndzro View Post
                You clearly dont understand why Mantle is such a big deal. Mantle multithreads the GPU workload allowing more slower cores to do the same work that 1 heavy IPC core used to do.

                This lets AMD and Intel concentrate on multicore performance vs IPC which has hit a brick wall.

                While the new OGL extensions work very well OGL would have to be completely rewritten in order to multithread. Since AMD is going to bring Mantle to Linux why not use it. Mantle API translates well to console also. PS4 is OGL so NV is covered too.

                Mantle + OGL is where it's at. AMD gets it's optimizations. Nvidia gets theirs. Everyone is happy. Cross platform everything and optimized with no coding headaches.
                I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. What Mantle is multithreading is not the communication with the GPU, but rather the internal processing in the driver. This will free up CPU cycles to communicate with the GPU, but reducing the amount of API calls is way more efficient, the way bindless graphics works.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by efikkan View Post
                  I'm sorry, but you are mistaken. What Mantle is multithreading is not the communication with the GPU, but rather the internal processing in the driver. This will free up CPU cycles to communicate with the GPU, but reducing the amount of API calls is way more efficient, the way bindless graphics works.
                  Mantle also reduces API calls.

                  If a company were making a cross platform title with only OGL the work to optimize for both AMD, and Nvidia, and PS4, And XB1, and Linux would be about the same as making a cross platform title for Mantle/Nvidia OGL/PS4/XB1/Linux. That way they only need to worry about Nvidia performance on OGL.

                  Besides MS is bringing DX12 to XB1. And Mantle porting to XB1(DX12) will be painless. So for only a bit more work a company will get great AMD support, Linux support (eventually) and AMD Steambox support (eventually)
                  http://wccftech.com/mantle-api-porte...d-white-paper/

                  This might lead to NV supporting Mantle because it will be available on Linux/Steambox and porting Mantle to DX12 will be practically effortless. This would give devs 1 main API Mantle/DX12 to support everything at the highest performance levels.

                  Mantle>PS4 is also a pretty easy port. On top of that Mantle might come to both PS4 and XB1. Mantle wouldn't be dissapearing anytime soon.
                  http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/03/...-both-further/
                  Last edited by grndzro; 19 June 2014, 04:50 PM.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by grndzro View Post
                    Mantle also reduces API calls.

                    If a company were making a cross platform title with only OGL the work to optimize for both AMD, and Nvidia, and PS4, And XB1, and Linux would be about the same as making a cross platform title for Mantle/Nvidia OGL/PS4/XB1/Linux. That way they only need to worry about Nvidia performance on OGL.

                    Besides MS is bringing DX12 to XB1. And Mantle porting to XB1(DX12) will be painless. So for only a bit more work a company will get great AMD support, Linux support (eventually) and AMD Steambox support (eventually)
                    http://wccftech.com/mantle-api-porte...d-white-paper/

                    This might lead to NV supporting Mantle because it will be available on Linux/Steambox and porting Mantle to DX12 will be practically effortless. This would give devs 1 main API Mantle/DX12 to support everything at the highest performance levels.

                    Mantle>PS4 is also a pretty easy port. On top of that Mantle might come to both PS4 and XB1. Mantle wouldn't be dissapearing anytime soon.
                    http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/03/...-both-further/
                    I love how you guys are talking all this about mantle yet not even the specification has been released to the public. You're literally basing this off of graphics AMD has released which mean absolutely nothing. I don't know about you but I don't like to speculate on unreleased and unproven technologies.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Yorgos View Post
                      :epic_facepalm:
                      sure, they don't have proper performance in openCL but there is a chance to support a rival's product and do it better.

                      Well, I bet it will be 10% behind AMD's performance and it will cost 5 times more than AMD's gpus
                      Its a joke. I doubt nvidia will even support it.

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