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AMD Is Still Looking At The Feasibility Of Mantle On Linux

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  • _SXX_
    replied
    Originally posted by squirrl View Post
    Can we also as$ume they're runing Xorg on the PS4?
    PS3 also have bits from FreeBSD and NetBSD:

    It's still don't mean that PS3 had anything like OS and obviously there nothing like Xorg or even traditional graphics stack.
    It's was hacked, so you can easily go and find lot of information of it's internals.

    Originally posted by squirrl View Post
    Now why isn't this relased to the public? Linux and Regular FreeBSD users of AMD hardware????
    LOL.

    Even game developers for PS4 will never know a lot about how it's actually working and you think it's feasible that Sony share anything with FreeBSD community.

    Leave a comment:


  • squirrl
    replied
    Feasibility?

    It's running on FREEBSD ie. PS4's FreeBSD Kernel.
    How Feasible does it need to be?

    Can we also as$ume they're runing Xorg on the PS4?

    Come on AMD enough with the smoke and mirror routine everybody knows you got Mantle ready to go.

    So sony is running a FreeBSD box with Xorg and has a top of the line AMD driver for their Radeon Graphics SOC solution.

    Now why isn't this relased to the public? Linux and Regular FreeBSD users of AMD hardware????

    These companies are rotten to the core. On a lighter note, there sits Microsoft with a Virtualization solution that can run DirectX 11+ inside a virtual machine on top of Windows 8.

    Unbelievable!

    Leave a comment:


  • _SXX_
    replied
    Originally posted by johnc View Post
    CryEngine supports Mantle but for OGL they implemented some cruddy D3D -> OGL translation layer.
    It's quite obviously why. Mantle use same HLSL shaders as D3D so most likely AMD developed it in partnership with Microsoft.

    Leave a comment:


  • Herem
    replied
    Originally posted by johnc View Post
    It's odd to see the near allergic reaction engine developers and AAA studios have had to supporting OpenGL over the years. Mantle comes along and all of a sudden engine devs are putting in implementations... and rather quickly too.

    CryEngine supports Mantle but for OGL they implemented some cruddy D3D -> OGL translation layer.

    The whole world has gone nuts.
    Dan Baker the developer who ported Star Swarm to run on Mantle said 'All we did for Mantle was replace the D3D module with a Mantle one. It's about 3,000 to 4,000 lines of code for the Mantle version, which took me personally about two months to write. In terms of support, at least for us, it wasn't terribly difficult.'

    In the same interview he also says 'However, we'd like to point out that our Direct3D performance is absolutely outstanding, relative to what is expected. We have spent a huge amount of time optimizing around D3D, and we feel we are actually pretty biased in D3D?s favor. Mantle, on the other hand, we've spent far less time with and currently have only pretty basic optimizations. But Mantle is such an elegant API that it still dwarfs our D3D performance.'

    So by the sounds of things Mantle is both easy to develop with and produces great results without excessive effort. Full interview can be found at:
    Tom's Hardware helps you buy the best hardware and build the best PC to play, create and work..

    Leave a comment:


  • Vim_User
    replied
    Originally posted by log0 View Post
    Developers don't have to support Mantle if they don't want to. I especially doubt indie developers will care about it, they have other priorities than AAA graphics, neither will they have the resources to develop an AAA engine.
    So what you are saying is: If you don't want to or can't produce an AAA title you shouldn't bother with having a faster renderer at all? Mantle is for AAA titles only?
    Talking about ridiculous claims.
    And I fully expect, or lets say hope, they will integrate Mantle like interfaces rather sooner than later (thanks to Mantle here), as already visible with the DirectX 12 announcement.
    So why should anyone bother with Mantle, an API for a small part of AMD GPUs, at all, when those features will be part of the established APIs?

    Leave a comment:


  • log0
    replied
    Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
    Because game developers, especially indie developers that don't use one of the larger engines, now have to support an additional API to get the speed benefits for a small number of cards (remember, for now Mantle is GCN only and it doesn't look like Nvidia has any plans to support it). If both companies would instead improve the already established APIs, like D3D and OpenGL, those game developers can concentrate on improving their engines for those APIs, instead of wasting time supporting more APIs.
    If you have followed this thread you know already that efforts towards reducing overhead in the established APIs is already made for years now, so Mantle is not something that AMD has just invented as a sudden reaction to demands of developers, they just wanted to be the first to come up with something like that, for the price that only GCN cards can use it.
    Would be interesting to know how much AMD payed to the companies developing the big engines for implementing support. I am pretty sure that they wouldn't just have it done for free, when it now shows up that Nvidia can get similar performance improvements without inventing a new API and with accelerating already existing engines without changing them (look the slides from Nvidia I posted above).
    Developers don't have to support Mantle if they don't want to. I especially doubt indie developers will care about it, they have other priorities than AAA graphics, neither will they have the resources to develop an AAA engine.

    And there are still OpenGL and DirectX. And I fully expect, or lets say hope, they will integrate Mantle like interfaces rather sooner than later (thanks to Mantle here), as already visible with the DirectX 12 announcement.

    I find this forced/paid Mantle integration claim ridiculous. I am pretty sure devs would add a faster renderer, if they would be given the opportunity, especially when they have a word to say about the API.

    There might be engineering support, but that is quite usual nowadays. Think of nvidia and intel drivers devs visiting valve.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnc
    replied
    Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
    Would be interesting to know how much AMD payed to the companies developing the big engines for implementing support.
    With such scarce resources available inside the company? They don't have the money to write a change log, do they really have the cash to get Mantle implemented in a variety of games and engines? I dunno... Maybe it's just about priorities.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnc
    replied
    Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
    Would be interesting to know how much AMD payed to the companies developing the big engines for implementing support. I am pretty sure that they wouldn't just have it done for free, when it now shows up that Nvidia can get similar performance improvements without inventing a new API and with accelerating already existing engines without changing them (look the slides from Nvidia I posted above).
    It's odd to see the near allergic reaction engine developers and AAA studios have had to supporting OpenGL over the years. Mantle comes along and all of a sudden engine devs are putting in implementations... and rather quickly too.

    CryEngine supports Mantle but for OGL they implemented some cruddy D3D -> OGL translation layer.

    The whole world has gone nuts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vim_User
    replied
    Originally posted by log0 View Post
    Btw how is this supposed to hurt developers? They write code for living and they will continue to do so with Mantle or without. It is just an API after all (co-developed by game developers).
    Because game developers, especially indie developers that don't use one of the larger engines, now have to support an additional API to get the speed benefits for a small number of cards (remember, for now Mantle is GCN only and it doesn't look like Nvidia has any plans to support it). If both companies would instead improve the already established APIs, like D3D and OpenGL, those game developers can concentrate on improving their engines for those APIs, instead of wasting time supporting more APIs.
    Originally posted by rvdboom View Post
    I don't see why you make such claims. There are plenty of reports on the Internet how Mantle has been designed by AMD following inputs by game developpers themselves and in a way at their request.
    If you have followed this thread you know already that efforts towards reducing overhead in the established APIs is already made for years now, so Mantle is not something that AMD has just invented as a sudden reaction to demands of developers, they just wanted to be the first to come up with something like that, for the price that only GCN cards can use it.
    Most engine developers seem very happy with it and the fact is that it is being added to most big engines right now.
    Would be interesting to know how much AMD payed to the companies developing the big engines for implementing support. I am pretty sure that they wouldn't just have it done for free, when it now shows up that Nvidia can get similar performance improvements without inventing a new API and with accelerating already existing engines without changing them (look the slides from Nvidia I posted above).

    Leave a comment:


  • rvdboom
    replied
    Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
    We users would benefit more if AMD/Nvidia come together and improve one API isntead of heaving an API war, which only will hurt game/engine developers.
    I don't see why you make such claims. There are plenty of reports on the Internet how Mantle has been designed by AMD following inputs by game developpers themselves and in a way at their request. Most engine developers seem very happy with it and the fact is that it is being added to most big engines right now.
    You can check for instance this post on Semiaccurate :



    The guy is a game developper and seems to know what he's talking about. He has made many informative posts on this subject and definitely seems quite interested.

    Leave a comment:

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