Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

AMD Wants Mantle On Linux, OS X, Mobile Devices

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by rvdboom View Post

    6/ AMD stated that Mantle is not restricted in itself to their own architecture. It can be used with others using a plugin-system, so there's no reason NVidia and Intel cannot develop a layer to use with their architecture. And since AMD has a rather good track record in opening their standards (x86_64, Hypertransport, HSA, etc.) and passing the IP to foundation, Mantle could probably become an open standard as OpenGL.

    I don't know if Mantle will live to its promises but I do think that people should look into it closely before dismissing it completely.
    So nice of them... Shame that that openness doesn't extend to their own pre gcn architectures. You see, I'm one of those idiots who made the mistake of buying an HD 6950 -- a 3 year old product now deemed "legacy" not due to any technical limitation, but out of the classic marketing fuck-you-strategy -- and, according to AMD -- love this part --, I would actually have better chances of using their own technology had I given my money to Nvidia or Intel at the time!

    In short, I hope Mantle crashes and burns. And with a bit of luck -- wishful thinking --, everyone at AMD involved in this "strategy" dies a painful death with it.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by rvdboom View Post
      Nope. Most if not all the points I made are public info.
      For instance, here is the link showing that various game developers do not want one low-level API per hardware manufacturer :


      Here are the slides from Oxide about their performance gains :
      APU13: Oxide fait exploser la limite CPU avec Mantle. Découvrez toute l'actualité cartes graphiques sur Hardware.fr. Après AMD et DICE, c'est au tour d'Oxide de donner son avis au sujet de Mantle et cette fois de proposer les premiers résultats pratiques. Oxide est une ...


      And this article about Mantle states at the end that Mantle, according to AMD, is generic enough to be portable to other architectures :
      Actualité informatique : découvrez toute l'actualité informatique sur les derniers processeurs, les dernières cartes mères, mais aussi l'actu sur les cartes graphiques, les disques durs.

      The article is interesting to how Mantle is supposed to work, BTW. It's in french but translation works OK on it.

      But the conclusions I made from there is indeed speculation.
      I want a lot things too, doesn't mean I will get them. Does AMD claim to expose Mantle API on other platforms in the links you have posted?

      Performance gains can be very relative. A game properly optimized won't have much GPU driver overhead (will avoid large number of draw calls in the first place). There are other things that make Mantle more interesting though. I think it is the right approach. I am just concerned about the one vendor(AMD) thing.

      AMD claiming that it is generic enough doesn't mean much. I'd like to hear that statement from Nvidia and/or Intel.

      Comment


      • #33
        I have been doing some serious thinking about this.

        Tom's live blog from the apu13 http://new.livestream.com/toms-live/events/2545103

        "Currently Mantle is only available on Windows with improvement on Windows 7 and 8. DX & GL are industry standards and the use case will continue to exist for developers that have no need to take use of Mantle's features"

        "Johan would love to see Mantle on Linux or Mac (didn't say much more), Workstations, R&D and of course, Games where it would be an "interesting combination to try out" when paired with the upcoming SteamOS"

        I would love nothing more that to hug AMD for bringing mantle to Linux as well as dice porting B4 but honestly I don't see either happening. Mantle was supposed to be cross platform as one of it's selling points now it is uncertain.

        Intels QuickSync is a Windows only thing at them moment and there GPU's perform leagues better in Windows. Mantle may not happen for Linux. I wanted to buy a kaveri to show my support but I don't know if I can not knowing if mantle will come and I want to take my intel laptop and puke on it in disgust.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by log0 View Post
          I want a lot things too, doesn't mean I will get them. Does AMD claim to expose Mantle API on other platforms in the links you have posted?
          No, I also saw that in the link provided by Michael in its article (on Planet3D.de).

          Originally posted by log0 View Post
          AMD claiming that it is generic enough doesn't mean much. I'd like to hear that statement from Nvidia and/or Intel.
          I agree. AMD generic claims are moot as long as there are no other hardware vendors to jump in. Since reportedly there are Nvidia developers at APU13 or on AMD's forum discussing Mantle, I guess they are at least interested.

          Comment


          • #35
            a new stupid ideia

            amd needs new ideias, but not this type of ideias. they can t do a decent driver even on windows, go home AMD

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by chithanh View Post
              @phoronix
              These slides are from DICE, not from AMD. So DICE wants Mantle on Linux, AMD has remained mostly mum on the topic.
              I think you misunderstand what Mantle is about. Mantle does not target individual applications, it targets the middleware. And it is going to be an additional renderer in addition to the existing DirectX / OpenGL / Xbone / PS4 / etc. renderers (no "switching to").
              I agree with you and would add that seems the great majority thinks Mantle is a replacement for OpenGL/DirectX. The main purpose of Mantle is to be an extra layer (abstraction), in addition to OpenGL and DirectX.

              Anyway, I think AMD started badly with this by not supporting Linux in Mantle. Reason: I think Linux will be the future for gaming and video editing (won't discuss this here). If Mantle will be good or not, we will just know if developers start using this and the (dis)advantages will appear.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by rudregues View Post
                I agree with you and would add that seems the great majority thinks Mantle is a replacement for OpenGL/DirectX. The main purpose of Mantle is to be an extra layer (abstraction), in addition to OpenGL and DirectX.

                Anyway, I think AMD started badly with this by not supporting Linux in Mantle. Reason: I think Linux will be the future for gaming and video editing (won't discuss this here). If Mantle will be good or not, we will just know if developers start using this and the (dis)advantages will appear.
                Actually the game engine is the abstraction layer and those could much more easily be customized for a low level api like Mantle.

                Comment


                • #38
                  At this point i am waiting tests of BF4 with and without Mantle, only then will we see if its worth it. Obviously gains must be >=20% and no less.
                  But seeing as a small companies with just a few devs can add support to their engine i see not trouble here at all. It apprears to be easy. So yes, the question is "What are the gains?"

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Tobai View Post
                    So nice of them... Shame that that openness doesn't extend to their own pre gcn architectures. You see, I'm one of those idiots who made the mistake of buying an HD 6950 -- a 3 year old product now deemed "legacy" not due to any technical limitation
                    The 6950 card was advertised as DirectX 11 card and that is still what it does today. In the Mantle interview, Johan Andersson explained that a GPU must meet certain minimum requirements to be Mantle capable.
                    Originally posted by Tobai View Post
                    but out of the classic marketing fuck-you-strategy -- and, according to AMD -- love this part --, I would actually have better chances of using their own technology had I given my money to Nvidia or Intel at the time!
                    The interview talked about Kepler, and that was released long after the 6950. In fact, it was released several months after the first GCN cards.
                    Originally posted by Tobai View Post
                    In short, I hope Mantle crashes and burns. And with a bit of luck -- wishful thinking --, everyone at AMD involved in this "strategy" dies a painful death with it.
                    I think you need to find a way to manage your anger.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by chithanh View Post
                      The 6950 card was advertised as DirectX 11 card and that is still what it does today. In the Mantle interview, Johan Andersson explained that a GPU must meet certain minimum requirements to be Mantle capable.
                      The interview talked about Kepler, and that was released long after the 6950. In fact, it was released several months after the first GCN cards.
                      I think you need to find a way to manage your anger.
                      Yeah, I think one of the minimum requirements is unified address space/virtual memory support. So anything older than GCN won't work (as a technical limitation).

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X