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AMD Wants Mantle On Linux, OS X, Mobile Devices

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  • rvdboom
    replied
    Originally posted by log0 View Post
    I want a lot things too, doesn't mean I will get them. Does AMD claim to expose Mantle API on other platforms in the links you have posted?
    No, I also saw that in the link provided by Michael in its article (on Planet3D.de).

    Originally posted by log0 View Post
    AMD claiming that it is generic enough doesn't mean much. I'd like to hear that statement from Nvidia and/or Intel.
    I agree. AMD generic claims are moot as long as there are no other hardware vendors to jump in. Since reportedly there are Nvidia developers at APU13 or on AMD's forum discussing Mantle, I guess they are at least interested.

    Leave a comment:


  • nightmarex
    replied
    I have been doing some serious thinking about this.

    Tom's live blog from the apu13 http://new.livestream.com/toms-live/events/2545103

    "Currently Mantle is only available on Windows with improvement on Windows 7 and 8. DX & GL are industry standards and the use case will continue to exist for developers that have no need to take use of Mantle's features"

    "Johan would love to see Mantle on Linux or Mac (didn't say much more), Workstations, R&D and of course, Games where it would be an "interesting combination to try out" when paired with the upcoming SteamOS"

    I would love nothing more that to hug AMD for bringing mantle to Linux as well as dice porting B4 but honestly I don't see either happening. Mantle was supposed to be cross platform as one of it's selling points now it is uncertain.

    Intels QuickSync is a Windows only thing at them moment and there GPU's perform leagues better in Windows. Mantle may not happen for Linux. I wanted to buy a kaveri to show my support but I don't know if I can not knowing if mantle will come and I want to take my intel laptop and puke on it in disgust.

    Leave a comment:


  • log0
    replied
    Originally posted by rvdboom View Post
    Nope. Most if not all the points I made are public info.
    For instance, here is the link showing that various game developers do not want one low-level API per hardware manufacturer :


    Here are the slides from Oxide about their performance gains :
    APU13: Oxide fait exploser la limite CPU avec Mantle. Découvrez toute l'actualité cartes graphiques sur Hardware.fr. Après AMD et DICE, c'est au tour d'Oxide de donner son avis au sujet de Mantle et cette fois de proposer les premiers résultats pratiques. Oxide est une ...


    And this article about Mantle states at the end that Mantle, according to AMD, is generic enough to be portable to other architectures :
    Actualité informatique : découvrez toute l'actualité informatique sur les derniers processeurs, les dernières cartes mères, mais aussi l'actu sur les cartes graphiques, les disques durs.

    The article is interesting to how Mantle is supposed to work, BTW. It's in french but translation works OK on it.

    But the conclusions I made from there is indeed speculation.
    I want a lot things too, doesn't mean I will get them. Does AMD claim to expose Mantle API on other platforms in the links you have posted?

    Performance gains can be very relative. A game properly optimized won't have much GPU driver overhead (will avoid large number of draw calls in the first place). There are other things that make Mantle more interesting though. I think it is the right approach. I am just concerned about the one vendor(AMD) thing.

    AMD claiming that it is generic enough doesn't mean much. I'd like to hear that statement from Nvidia and/or Intel.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tobai
    replied
    Originally posted by rvdboom View Post

    6/ AMD stated that Mantle is not restricted in itself to their own architecture. It can be used with others using a plugin-system, so there's no reason NVidia and Intel cannot develop a layer to use with their architecture. And since AMD has a rather good track record in opening their standards (x86_64, Hypertransport, HSA, etc.) and passing the IP to foundation, Mantle could probably become an open standard as OpenGL.

    I don't know if Mantle will live to its promises but I do think that people should look into it closely before dismissing it completely.
    So nice of them... Shame that that openness doesn't extend to their own pre gcn architectures. You see, I'm one of those idiots who made the mistake of buying an HD 6950 -- a 3 year old product now deemed "legacy" not due to any technical limitation, but out of the classic marketing fuck-you-strategy -- and, according to AMD -- love this part --, I would actually have better chances of using their own technology had I given my money to Nvidia or Intel at the time!

    In short, I hope Mantle crashes and burns. And with a bit of luck -- wishful thinking --, everyone at AMD involved in this "strategy" dies a painful death with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • rvdboom
    replied
    Originally posted by log0 View Post
    Sorry, not really interested in speculations of what could be. Or do you have some info (I mean definite info) to back it up?
    Nope. Most if not all the points I made are public info.
    For instance, here is the link showing that various game developers do not want one low-level API per hardware manufacturer :


    Here are the slides from Oxide about their performance gains :
    APU13: Oxide fait exploser la limite CPU avec Mantle. Découvrez toute l'actualité cartes graphiques sur Hardware.fr. Après AMD et DICE, c'est au tour d'Oxide de donner son avis au sujet de Mantle et cette fois de proposer les premiers résultats pratiques. Oxide est une ...


    And this article about Mantle states at the end that Mantle, according to AMD, is generic enough to be portable to other architectures :
    Actualité informatique : découvrez toute l'actualité informatique sur les derniers processeurs, les dernières cartes mères, mais aussi l'actu sur les cartes graphiques, les disques durs.

    The article is interesting to how Mantle is supposed to work, BTW. It's in french but translation works OK on it.

    But the conclusions I made from there is indeed speculation.

    Leave a comment:


  • blackout23
    replied
    Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
    I doesn't think Apple allow them to enable Mantle on OS X.
    True. Apple barely managed to implement OpenGL 4.1 (was released in 2010) into their brand new OSX version which came out just a few weeks ago. Apple really doesn't care about any graphics APIs.

    Leave a comment:


  • chithanh
    replied
    @phoronix
    These slides are from DICE, not from AMD. So DICE wants Mantle on Linux, AMD has remained mostly mum on the topic.
    Originally posted by Marc Driftmeyer View Post
    If it makes game engines more efficient, bravo! I guarantee you FEA/CFD and more applications aren't going to spin their wheels for 5% -10% performance improvements by switching to Mantle when they will just mature their OpenGL/OpenCL code.
    I think you misunderstand what Mantle is about. Mantle does not target individual applications, it targets the middleware. And it is going to be an additional renderer in addition to the existing DirectX / OpenGL / Xbone / PS4 / etc. renderers (no "switching to").

    And 5-10% can be a lot, the difference between Radeon R9 290X and GeForce 780 Ti is less than that in many cases.

    Leave a comment:


  • RussianNeuroMancer
    replied
    Originally posted by phoronix View Post
    Phoronix: AMD Wants Mantle On Linux, OS X, Mobile Devices
    I doesn't think Apple allow them to enable Mantle on OS X.

    Leave a comment:


  • rvdboom
    replied
    We don't know enough of what Mantle brings to the table as performance gains to make any claim. We don't know either how easier it will to code than OpenGL.
    Oxide presentation tells that can run 10 times more batch on the same configuration with Mantle than with OpenGL or DirectX.
    How does that translate to actual performance gain, I don't have the faintest idea. I guess its adoption will basically depend on the gains being massive, not just 10-15%.

    Leave a comment:


  • log0
    replied
    Originally posted by rvdboom View Post
    This is how I see it :

    1/ Several game engine developers have already added Mantle to their engine, and the others seem quite interested.
    2/ Even though Mantle is not in XBox or PS4 in itself, it would be quite logical if AMD has designed it in such way to allow the move from these to Mantle in the easiest possible way.
    2/ Three of the main game developers (DICE, Id and Epic) have stated that it would be **very bad** if there was a different Mantle-like API for each hardware provider.
    3/ Mantle is supposed to be able to support other architectures with plugins.

    In other words, Mantle has many things to be quickly integrated in all game engines, game developpers just want one of those low-level APIs on PC and Mantle can be extended to other architectures.
    So my guess is that it won't stay tied up to AMD very long.
    Sorry, not really interested in speculations of what could be. Or do you have some info (I mean definite info) to back it up?

    Leave a comment:

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