AMD Wants Mantle On Linux, OS X, Mobile Devices

[log0]

I have to say I like what I've seen so far (high level bits). They are exposing GPU engines (Graphics, Compute, DMA) and memory to the developer, allow to feed the command buffers directly and handle memory allocation. This means a bit more work for developers using this API, but also more control over GPU (and simpler drivers ).

I think Mantle could be the way to go, if it wasn't tied up to AMD (hardware).

To AMD/DICE: Where is the fscking API spec?

[rvdboom]

I think Mantle could be the way to go, if it wasn't tied up to AMD (hardware).

This is how I see it :

1/ Several game engine developers have already added Mantle to their engine, and the others seem quite interested.
2/ Even though Mantle is not in XBox or PS4 in itself, it would be quite logical if AMD has designed it in such way to allow the move from these to Mantle in the easiest possible way.
2/ Three of the main game developers (DICE, Id and Epic) have stated that it would be **very bad** if there was a different Mantle-like API for each hardware provider.
3/ Mantle is supposed to be able to support other architectures with plugins.

In other words, Mantle has many things to be quickly integrated in all game engines, game developpers just want one of those low-level APIs on PC and Mantle can be extended to other architectures.
So my guess is that it won't stay tied up to AMD very long.

[Marc Driftmeyer]

This won't supplant OpenGL.

If it is lucky, it will be a tool that is used in places that make sense and no where else. Most importantly, OpenGL/OpenCL were designed with interoperability in mind. AMD is all in on all 3 areas: OpenGL/OpenCL and Mantle.

Most likely they are trying to make a hybrid of OpenGL/OpenCL and calling it Mantle.

If it makes game engines more efficient, bravo! I guarantee you FEA/CFD and more applications aren't going to spin their wheels for 5% -10% performance improvements by switching to Mantle when they will just mature their OpenGL/OpenCL code.

[Marc Driftmeyer]

Note: lame 1 minute barrier.

Note: Might I add as a NeXT/Apple alum, ``Apple won't give too ****s about it'' replacing any of their OpenGL/OpenCL code that has been completely updated and modernized for OS X 10.9 and iOS 7.x.

[log0]

This is how I see it :

1/ Several game engine developers have already added Mantle to their engine, and the others seem quite interested.
2/ Even though Mantle is not in XBox or PS4 in itself, it would be quite logical if AMD has designed it in such way to allow the move from these to Mantle in the easiest possible way.
2/ Three of the main game developers (DICE, Id and Epic) have stated that it would be **very bad** if there was a different Mantle-like API for each hardware provider.
3/ Mantle is supposed to be able to support other architectures with plugins.

In other words, Mantle has many things to be quickly integrated in all game engines, game developpers just want one of those low-level APIs on PC and Mantle can be extended to other architectures.
So my guess is that it won't stay tied up to AMD very long.

Sorry, not really interested in speculations of what could be. Or do you have some info (I mean definite info) to back it up?

[rvdboom]

We don't know enough of what Mantle brings to the table as performance gains to make any claim. We don't know either how easier it will to code than OpenGL.
Oxide presentation tells that can run 10 times more batch on the same configuration with Mantle than with OpenGL or DirectX.
How does that translate to actual performance gain, I don't have the faintest idea. I guess its adoption will basically depend on the gains being massive, not just 10-15%.

[RussianNeuroMancer]

Phoronix: AMD Wants Mantle On Linux, OS X, Mobile Devices

I doesn't think Apple allow them to enable Mantle on OS X.

[chithanh]

@phoronix
These slides are from DICE, not from AMD. So DICE wants Mantle on Linux, AMD has remained mostly mum on the topic.

If it makes game engines more efficient, bravo! I guarantee you FEA/CFD and more applications aren't going to spin their wheels for 5% -10% performance improvements by switching to Mantle when they will just mature their OpenGL/OpenCL code.

I think you misunderstand what Mantle is about. Mantle does not target individual applications, it targets the middleware. And it is going to be an additional renderer in addition to the existing DirectX / OpenGL / Xbone / PS4 / etc. renderers (no "switching to").

And 5-10% can be a lot, the difference between Radeon R9 290X and GeForce 780 Ti is less than that in many cases.

[blackout23]

I doesn't think Apple allow them to enable Mantle on OS X.

True. Apple barely managed to implement OpenGL 4.1 (was released in 2010) into their brand new OSX version which came out just a few weeks ago. Apple really doesn't care about any graphics APIs.

[rvdboom]

Sorry, not really interested in speculations of what could be. Or do you have some info (I mean definite info) to back it up?

Nope. Most if not all the points I made are public info.
For instance, here is the link showing that various game developers do not want one low-level API per hardware manufacturer :

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/carmack-mantle-sweeney-andersson-api,24801.html

Here are the slides from Oxide about their performance gains :

http://www.hardware.fr/news/13450/apu13-oxide-fait-exploser-limite-cpu-avec-mantle.html

And this article about Mantle states at the end that Mantle, according to AMD, is generic enough to be portable to other architectures :

http://www.hardware.fr/news/13-11-2013/#actu_13445

The article is interesting to how Mantle is supposed to work, BTW. It's in french but translation works OK on it.

But the conclusions I made from there is indeed speculation.