Tired of being screwed by ATI? Do something!

[Extreme Coder]

Extreme Coder, if you've buyed a new igp serie then you might get them soon. but if not, you might have to wait a loooot. you've done a great error in buying an igp. if you want a mobo with igp then buy an intel powered igp or a nvidia 7xxx igp serie and then buy an ati hd when it gets the support you want. these boards are still good and support the am2 quad sockets (gigayte, abit, asrock and tyan boards do on my knowledge) and cost relatively low.
having instead an igp, not of the last r600 (i don't know if there are r600 igps) is very risky, because the amd sanitizing team is made of a small group and it takes a lot of time to remove all the nda stuff of that documentation before releasing it. the proof is what i've read in an article of oct (if i remember well) from phoronix on this matter that stated that the 3d specs could be released towards the end of the year or delayed to next year since the sanitizing operations are slow. i don't remember the article and i don't want to state something that wasn't really told there, so take this as a sentence of what i've understood of that article and take it as that. if you'd like more info on the matter try searching phoronix on this matter and see what you can find in its articles.

The IGP I got is an ATI Radeon X1200 (same as X1250, but without HDMI)
The reason I got the MoBo with this IGP, was because:
When buying componenets for my PC, I spotted an offer for a MSI K9AGM2 (ATI Radeon X1200 IGP)+AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000 + 2 GB Corsair ValueSelect RAM for about $275. That was an attractive offer, so I got it :P

[teroedni]

The IGP I got is an ATI Radeon X1200 (same as X1250, but without HDMI)
The reason I got the MoBo with this IGP, was because:
When buying componenets for my PC, I spotted an offer for a MSI K9AGM2 (ATI Radeon X1200 IGP)+AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000 + 2 GB Corsair ValueSelect RAM for about $275. That was an attractive offer, so I got it :P

so fglrx is not working for you?

[givemesugarr]

the x1200 is a rs690 which should have specs released so this is good. if you haven't done it yet, try to install the radeon-hd conntest and help the redeon-hd team support the board. unfortunately i don't posses, yet, a hd board so i cannot help them out. i wanted to wait till end of this year to rejuvenate my pcs so i don't posses a new generation board.
for the price i seem to understand that you have ddr2 memory. the processor itself is a little slow but the overall value is quite high. the problem is the expandability of the mobo. you might find it difficult to expand the mobo later on. and remember that you have only 1,4gb of actual ram since the igp takes (512 mb i think) its ram directly from the system ram.

so fglrx is not working for you?

it should since this is a r600 chip.

[Extreme Coder]

so fglrx is not working for you?

No, it is working. Although the performance is not as good as Windows, it had a boost from 8.40 to 8.41 (450+ fps increase in glxgears, 3d games feel much faster)

the x1200 is a rs690 which should have specs released so this is good. if you haven't done it yet, try to install the radeon-hd conntest and help the redeon-hd team support the board. unfortunately i don't posses, yet, a hd board so i cannot help them out. i wanted to wait till end of this year to rejuvenate my pcs so i don't posses a new generation board.
for the price i seem to understand that you have ddr2 memory. the processor itself is a little slow but the overall value is quite high. the problem is the expandability of the mobo. you might find it difficult to expand the mobo later on. and remember that you have only 1,4gb of actual ram since the igp takes (512 mb i think) its ram directly from the system ram.

Good to hear they'll release the docs soon.

I'll try to see more info about that contest utility.

About upgradability, I think you're mistaken. I can add extra RAM later ( since the package I got didn't have RAM, so I went to the retailer again, and he gave me 1 2GB Corsair RAM instead), and if I want, I can replace my processor with a Quad Core from AMD when they come out, and add extra RAM too.

[Thetargos]

This thread reminds me so much of my situation back in autumn of 2004 when I got very frustrated about ATi's Linux support and my 9500. I didn't have the money for an upgrade back then, but I got a GeForce FX which is still my current card.

I still like ATi hardware a LOT, but since then, I don't consider them for my main systems. Since I have to do a LOT of 3D is not like I'd benefit much from them (in their current state), anyway. The last two driver releases do bring hope, though are not reason enough to make me consider rushing back to ATI... yet. I don't particularly like nVidia, but the degree of their Linux support is excellent (alas, not without issues either).

I still have a few grudges with the nVidia driver (particularly the "reference" one) and how it does break X. I'm hesitant now on what upgrade path to follow, as I don't want to struggle with lack of features (Xv for instance in the Geforce 8 series) or compromise performance/features (Radeon HD series). I know that "once you hit the bottom, the only possible way is UP", and ATi did hit the bottom in Linux (and stayed there for some time), so I'm still rather hopeful they'll get there, eventually...

In the mean time, I have to decide whether to go with a problematic nVidia GeForce generation (8) or buy a past generation card (7600/7900GS) to finally get into the PCI-E bandwagon, and upgrade anyway some time down the road... But how would that be different if I waited altogether? I hate being in this situation, as my machine is just "fine" but for what I need to do is quickly falling short. Maybe I'll wait for the next nvidia driver and see what it brings before making any rushed decision (if it finally corrects all or most of the G80 problems, I may go with an 8800GT, if not, I'm still considering a G70 part).

[d2kx]

Tired of being bored by ATI haters? Yes, I am.

[Svartalf]

Tired of being bored by ATI haters? Yes, I am.

Considering that the following has been said by at least 1 Windows gaming site: "Alternatives: Until AMD ships their upcoming RV670 chip, the Radeon HD 3800, there really is no viable alternative to the GeForce 8800 GT that we?d recommend. If you want to save a little money the Radeon X1950 Pro would be an excellent alternative though."

This was in response to the GPU choice for a serious gamer's machine upgrade for $500 to be able to play all the latest DX10 titles decently. They chose the 8800.

While I am not in the AMD/ATI hater category, there IS some reason to be upset with them- this stuff we're seeing is not something that they'd survive ANY time with in the Windows space. They're a commercial vendor; if they're going to keep us waiting for the specs to make the drivers ourselves, then they need to give us adequate drivers (There's a reason for this- and it has little to do with us enthusiasts (Or Game Devs, in my case... >:-) ) right at the moment...). Right now, they're not doing that, if you're 100% honest with yourself.

[aoanla]

Tired of being bored by ATI haters? Yes, I am.

Oh, come now. There's a difference between "disappointed because their hardware doesn't work" and "full of hatred". Hyperbolic mischaracterisation of dissent doesn't do anyone justice.

[Thetargos]

If I were an exclusive Windows (XP) user, I wouldn't have any problems with ATi, at the hardware level their designs tend to be more elegant and scalable than nVidia's (at least with the R300/400/500 generations), ATi hardware since R200 has been able to do more with less (comparatively speaking to nVidia counterparts), and nVidia has made some serious mistakes at the hardware level too (the whole FX series "fiasco"), yet, unlike ATi for so many years, nVidia did commit to the Linux platform (not out of idealism, but because of it's increased use in the professional fields of imaging and rendering compared to other solutions such as SGI), this created a win/win situation for them, and they've been able to harvest their early efforts. It's not been a ride in park either for them, as they have faced also a lot of problems, alas they seem to have been able to at least correct most of them.

ATi on the other hand has the backing up of the community since their release of the R200 specs (which weren't full, and that also involved those nasty NDAs), we got some FLOSS drivers, at the expense of performance and features lack, but still FLOSS, at a time when ATi wasn't even considering releasing a proprietary driver. ATi seems more FLOSS friendly than nVidia (even though the better support is from nVidia), and even the fact that they are willing to release to the community their hardware specs (apparently this time with "no strings attached") speaks very loud and clear about their recognition of Linux, the Open Source model and community (even though this might also be triggered by the heated competition against Intel in the IGP department), which is why I keep an eye open for AMD/ATi news every now and then.

Nope, in my case is not hatred, is necessity. Once I cut off the umbilical cord with Windows, I need to use that which works the best for what I do, and sadly, involves staying (for the time being) away from ATi video gear.

[butdie]

better to stick to intel video, or at least nvidia

it's a sensible choice.

radeonhd development is extremely slow. They promised 2D by end of 2007, a goal very unlikely to meet by this late of 2007 already, since AMD still remains silent on the promised specs. The development leads me to believe more and more about the real role of radeonhd, a cheap PR action during AMD's losing of the battle.

Then, it's very unlikely to see any 3D support by radeonhd in several years. no point to buy hardware now and wait for years for a driver to fully use it.

Upgrade to nvidia is a good damage control, since there's no discrete intel card out there yet.

Well, after being screwed by ATI for several months I decided I have to take actions

October 29: nVidia GeForce 8800GT 256/512MB release and in stock

What you have now -> Good upgrade


Radeon X1300 -> GeForce 7300GT
Radeon X1600 -> GeForce 7600GS/GeForce 8500GT
Radeon X1650 -> GeForce 7900GS/GeForce 8600GT
Radeon X1950P -> GeForce 8800GS
Radeon X1950XT -> GeForce 8800GT 256MB
Radeon X1950XTX -> GeForce 8800GT 512MB

Radeon HD2400 -> GeForce 8500GT
Radeon HD2600PRO/XT -> GeForce 8600GT
Radeon HD2900PRO -> GeForce 8800GT 512MB
Radeon HD2900XT -> GeForce 8800GTS 640MB, NEW GeForce 8800GTS 512MB
Radeon HD3800? -> GeForce 8800GT 256MB/512MB, NEW GeForce 8800GTS 512MB


This table tells you what to buy. DO NOT BUY ATI if you ever want to use Linux! Remember!

I will get ride of my X1900 and go to a 8800GT soon and post back results later!