Radeon UVD Support Going Through Code Review

[droidhacker]

2 points:
1.Releasing the UVD as a binary blob or anything obfuscated wont happen because any blob that small would be too easy to reverse engineer
2.Its not about DRM as such, its about the fact that if AMD documents this hardware, Microsoft will revoke their "protected content can play on this hardware" approval (block the digital signatures of the drivers or whatever) because getting that approval means the hardware has to be undocumented to prevent hackers hacking it.

Anyone know what the situation is regarding Intel cards? Do they have dedicated silicon for decoding video? Is the driver support open source on Linux? If so, what has Intel done differently that makes it possible to open-source their support?

Whether your analysis is right or wrong, the big question I have is this; WHY do hardware makers bend over to the likes of MS/Hollywood/etc and agree to this? If the hardware vendors took a stand and said "F*** THAT", then the software vendors would have to capitulate to THAT position and accept that the hardware won't be used to protect content.

In other words, MS and/or Hollywood *COULD* be forced away from DRM if only all the HARDWARE DIDN'T SUPPORT IT.

I know its too late to go back on it now, since the contracts have been signed, but I would DEFINITELY NOT include DRM hardware in any future products.

[DaemonFC]

Whether your analysis is right or wrong, the big question I have is this; WHY do hardware makers bend over to the likes of MS/Hollywood/etc and agree to this? If the hardware vendors took a stand and said "F*** THAT", then the software vendors would have to capitulate to THAT position and accept that the hardware won't be used to protect content.

In other words, MS and/or Hollywood *COULD* be forced away from DRM if only all the HARDWARE DIDN'T SUPPORT IT.

I know its too late to go back on it now, since the contracts have been signed, but I would DEFINITELY NOT include DRM hardware in any future products.

Calling blu ray "protected" when a rip of every blu ray ever released is on your favorite bittorrent site is comical at best.

It's just one more pain in the ass that politicians like Bridgman keep lying about to snow the owner of the hardware that won't work properly.

[Ansla]

Whether your analysis is right or wrong, the big question I have is this; WHY do hardware makers bend over to the likes of MS/Hollywood/etc and agree to this? If the hardware vendors took a stand and said "F*** THAT", then the software vendors would have to capitulate to THAT position and accept that the hardware won't be used to protect content.

In other words, MS and/or Hollywood *COULD* be forced away from DRM if only all the HARDWARE DIDN'T SUPPORT IT.

I know its too late to go back on it now, since the contracts have been signed, but I would DEFINITELY NOT include DRM hardware in any future products.

Not including DRM in any product would be suicide as every Joe Sixpack out there would only buy nVidia and Intel because they can play "premium content". But some DRM-free editions (like they have now unlocked multiplier editions) of their future APUs would be nice.

[DaemonFC]

What AMD does with their Catalyst driver is effectively malware by proxy.

Just the thing for your Linux system, a blob of proprietary binary crap in the kernel that shoves everything GPU-related out into the X server and undoes the last 6 years of technical achievements of X.org and the Linux kernel.

That's just the appetizer though, it turns your kernel and X server into a nasty undebuggable mess that crashes a lot for reasons that are usually not entirely clear.

So that AMD can pretend that their criminal friends in Hollywood and at Microsoft are "protected" because some Linux user can't figure out how parts of their private property work.

In the mean time, various laughable flaws in Windows, Windows software, and even the fucking video drivers for Windows, combined with a really third rate DRM specification, have allowed EVERY SINGLE BLU RAY DISC, NOT *ONE* SPARED to be ripped and put up on file sharing sites.

Then AMD sends Bridgman out to piss all over us and say it's raining. AMD is not exactly a winner in all of this mess either. They're contractually obligated (under duress) to appease Microsoft and Hollywood and pretend like their shit DRM works when it doesn't.

It might not be so bad if Bridgman wasn't insinuating that they're actually protecting anything when they aren't though. I understand that maybe he feels compelled to lie because the company he works for is compelled to humor people who should be in federal prison.

[bridgman]

It might not be so bad if Bridgman wasn't insinuating that they're actually protecting anything when they aren't though. I understand that maybe he feels compelled to lie because the company he works for is compelled to humor people who should be in federal prison.

Please read what I actually post (rather than, say, what Q says I posted ) before making comments like this. I have stated here multiple times that the requirement on us is not "protecting BluRay content" but "making sure that our specific subset of the playback chain is secure".

I know full well that there are other ways to get around the protection chain, but (as I have posted multiple times) that in no way changes the requirements *we* (and everyone else in the GPU business) need to meet in order to sell into the OEM PC market which makes up the majority of our business.

It would be nice if you would stop insinuating (falsely) that AMD is any different from any other GPU vendor in this regard, but that's your call.

[bridgman]

Then AMD sends Bridgman out to piss all over us and say it's raining. AMD is not exactly a winner in all of this mess either. They're contractually obligated (under duress) to appease Microsoft and Hollywood and pretend like their shit DRM works when it doesn't.

Sorry, but you are totally missing the point. We are contractually obligated (as a pre-requisite of selling into our chosen market) to guard the front door even though content is being copied on a regular basis via the back door and the windows. We know that, and I've said that here multiple times, but it doesn't change anything.

Please stop misrepresenting what I say.

[bridgman]

Or maybe reality isn't as black-and-white as people would like it to be. All I can do is state facts.

If you don't like them, and want to dance around wrapped in conspiracy theories, go for it. Just don't take your thoughts and present them as mine.

[DaemonFC]

Please read what I actually post (rather than, say, what Q says I posted ) before making comments like this. I have stated here multiple times that the requirement on us is not "protecting BluRay content" but "making sure that our specific subset of the playback chain is secure".

I know full well that there are other ways to get around the protection chain, but (as I have posted multiple times) that in no way changes the requirements *we* (and everyone else in the GPU business) need to meet in order to sell into the OEM PC market which makes up the majority of our business.

It would be nice if you would stop insinuating (falsely) that AMD is any different from any other GPU vendor in this regard, but that's your call.

I think the best you're going to get from me is that your company is less malicious than Nvidia. (Which is why I have three Radeon HD cards in use and a laptop based on that Vision platform).

It's sad that it doesn't get any better than this.

Edit: But thank you for agreeing with me that it's absurd to guard the front door when the thieves are going out the back with all the loot.

[droidhacker]

Not including DRM in any product would be suicide as every Joe Sixpack out there would only buy nVidia and Intel because they can play "premium content". But some DRM-free editions (like they have now unlocked multiplier editions) of their future APUs would be nice.

Not even close.
1) Video decoding ALREADY doesn't work on AMD.
2) in this scenario, nvidia ALSO wouldn't support DRM and would stand to GAIN just as much by NOT supporting it.

As for "premium content"... there is no such thing. Eliminate DRM and everything that people actually use will remain fine. As has been mentioned above, everything "protected" is free for download anyway.

In fact, media providers would profit by the elimination of DRM, because PEOPLE WHO CAN'T/WON'T DRM stand a MUCH higher chance of ***ACTUALLY PAYING*** for content that they can actually consume!!!!! People who WON'T pay for it will GET IT FOR FREE ON THE INTERNET regardless of DRM.

I refuse to pay EVEN ONE CENT for DRM'd content because;
(a) I can't consume it,
(b) it is IMMORAL.

If it was un-DRM? I might just buy some media.

[crazycheese]

I know full well that there are other ways to get around the protection chain, but (as I have posted multiple times) that in no way changes the requirements *we* (and everyone else in the GPU business) need to meet in order to sell into the OEM PC market which makes up the majority of our business.

I think I understand now what he means. OEM = Dell, HP etc. Ready laptops and PC with proprietary parts. They are all shipped with Windows, even they talk about free choice. No conspiracy you say?

Microsoft requires you to close up you driver as part of their theory. You agree to that. And you disagree to create any sufficient other driver for any other OS, other than based on microsoft one. You are essentually puting microsoft in front of the wheel and comply to anything they say. Because you don?t deliver good driver to different platforms, these platforms become no good software (hardware support is bad). Because of this people on the street have no choice in OS.

This is magical triangle

........(1)Software
........../............\
........./...............\
(2)Hardware ---- (3)Customers


Whoever controls 2/3 of it, controlls the rest. The 1/3 is being forcefully pulled by neccesity to operate.

(1) controlled via programmers (developers, developers, developers). Using proprietary library stacks (dx, dot net)
(2) controlled via secret untertable agreements of high percentage skonto, or boycotte (sweets and punishment method), these are widely known by ms - no secret
(3) controlled via ads

On your site you have ms ads with titles to dx games. Should I add anything?

Not a conspiracy you say? What about Gary Kildal and secret NDA, which made him silent? Who killed him when he decided to talk? Whole world knows that. Microsoft, an old IBM, is literally based on conspiracy.

But thats not the problem.

The problem is that there are people with money, that want product. You refuse to give them the product, offering drug instead. The drug is preinstalled on all OEMs. Q is right calling you (part of) mafia, because you are. When I used your hardware I had strong feeling about opensource program like "give them the basics, so they shut up". You are not serving your customers, you are forcefully driving the market. This might have worked in Al Capone times, but it will not work in era of global intercommunication.

You do not want to keep this world fair. If you would you would have long ago started market research. This what AMD will lack forever and loose forever. You will never lead.