AMD's Hiring Open-Source Graphics Developers Still

[V!NCENT]

Seriously, do I have to read more?
Which card do you use ? I guess you are deanjo(no offence, my proprietary f(r)iend ) ) mirrored clone and use AMD.

Deanjo? No I'm just the way I am
Laptop: HD5470
Desktop: 5770 and 3300 onboard.

Are you proud your card performance is wasted under Linux, with company stepping in way nvidia already completed for years, and openCORE driver(ubuntu, oracle and recently amd) usable only for engineers? Such people as yourself literally leave linux to never move direction desktop, opensource or not.

Wasted? Am I not getting the same FPS as you in Kwin? I buy my PC with overkill so that I can use it for a looooooong time up to the point it starts to seriously stutters due to new software being calculation intensive. In the end I save money. Also... do I 'waste' my 8GB RAM simply because I don't full it up? (pretty stupid to do so IMHO)

Linux is a kernel.

Seriously... Are we going into that territory? It's ATI Radeon, not AMD! Boohoo! <_<

Weee! You need ... which card? Current opensource state is thanks to AMD, usable only on IGP. At BEST. I guarantee!

Did not watch that video. Your point is in your senctence that AMD delivers supstandard FLOSS drivers and docs, right? Well guess what? It's better than Intel and nVidia's lack of ANY FUCKING DOCUMENTATION. Happier to have none? What is your logic? That of emotion?

Amazing, no?

I will now upgrade you to triple moron for trying to prove facts wrong by the fact stating popular opinion.

I cannot use the card features, I cannot use UVD, I cannot use superspeed graphics(but AMD opengl is almost always worse than nvidia, unlike directx. But lets call it company priorities, it still works).

Neither can't I, but UVD isn't required if you have even a remotely desent CPU that is no problem. So what's this giant show stopper? I also can't use Display Port and HDMI, because my monitor doesn't support it. So fucking what? I also not use the audio card on that Radeon because I don't use HDMI for audio. So what? Am I supposed to buy an HDMI monitor with speakers because else I would waste my card? How freaking retarted is that? Do you also cry when you waste three seats in your car because you can only sit on one? :')

Should I use windows for amd card, cause its in the "required pieces of software" on their website?

There is a Linux download option? Hello? Official support? Linux logo on the box? Does AMD not provide a proprietary driver that works with the Linux desktop components called X.org and Linux? Well?

Is windows driver.... erm ... sponsored?..

No they have this big fucking Windows logo on the box of you GPU, indicating that is is official supported? Hello?

How about making me pay for the driver in linux in same way I pay for it in windows?
Well, at least AMD actively refused to even think about it.

Seriously... what did you expect? You have this multi trillion gazillion dollar company that is going to change its own business strategy... just for you? LOL!

Of course its AMD driver and AMD proprietary! And engineers are thankful to AMD for letting them play with hardware, no doubt. But not normal guys, uh.. I forgot, according to you my gentoo box is for freaks only.

What the hell are you talking about? Normal guys browse the web, email and type some documents. What card on earth is not capable of accelerating a supporting compiziting desktop with free soft-... oh wait your nVidia card, I forgot. Sorry man...

I never claimed opening docs is a marketing, I call AMD "opensource strategy" - marketing. So, opening docs is part of the plan, but not the plan itself.
If AMD would call it "technology education strategy" - I would rise no further questions.

First, people bitch about no opennes about open source. Then AMD is open about their strategy. No people bitch about the fact that AMD has opened up documentation (or not fully due to DRM at their own legal risk, just for us nutjobs) and now people bitch that the proprietary driver is useful, they have four guys working on a FLOSS driver and have enough documentation for OpenGL 2.1?!?!? Schizofrenic behavior...

Look, I want my hardware working on Linux. Comprende?

Me comprendo. Me also showy you proprietary AMDyo driverio. Working, da?

Yes, says me. Little guy with linux box. If I go to hardware store I don't want to be looked at as a moron, if I mention "linux". Is it bad? Should I start commiting for it? Or maybe I should commit suicide for you to be happy?

I'm the kinda guy that has more friends than spare time to see all of them on a regular basis. Usualy if I even remotely mention the name Linux they are struck in awe. And don't commit suicide; that would make you quadro moron, evolution wise

Last time Kodak guy assured me linux is supported. A day later he had two opened printers returned to him, 100? each. I have two HP since then. Linux marketing at best!

I guy said to me that Windows 7 is realy different and great. I checked it out and whiped the beta. Now I use it rarely because sometimes I have no choice.

If AMD would have put 100 developers behind open driver, and at last stand behind it, take responsibility, I would have never sold my 4770. I was a bit tired of periodic freezes and crashes you know. I hope your desktop does not freeze when you type a response to this post. I seriously hope.

NO CARRIER. Oh wait... Good joke bro

[monraaf]

Sure!

But what I'd like to see is a sense of perspective, and what some people are spewing here (hi Panix) is malignant, intentional FUD.

AMD hasn't documented UVD. There are good reasons for this. The rest is documented, at least on r700 and below.

I'm sure Nvidia has also good reasons for not documenting their GPUs, and if not they can always hide behind third party IP, DRM concerns bla bla bla.

I have also very good reasons to pay only half price for any product containing a AMD GPU. Do you think AMD cares about my reasons? Of course not. Then why should I care about AMD's reasons to ship me a half broken product?

The drivers are stable, provide an accelerated 3d desktop, play all native games just fine (though more performance would be nice).

Just because everything works stable on your AMD GPU, doesn't mean it's the same for everyone else. There are still a lot bugs and cases where the open drivers can lockup your GPU, just look at the bugzilla. If AMD doesn't hire someone to fix these, they are not going to get fixed.

Let's discuss Michael Koenig's VDPAU implementation and how far we are from h264 and WebM decoding.

Sure nice initiative, and I hope it does deliver. But it's still a big question mark to me how efficient the shader based solution will be compared to using the UVD unit and how IGPs and low end APUs are going to cope with it.

don't shit on people who are actually writing open source, like the community has been asking them to. I'm sick of it!

I don't see anybody here 'shitting' on the people who are writing the open drivers. I see people who are criticizing a company for not doing enough, and people who are not satisfied with the product they paid for.

[pingufunkybeat]

I'm sure Nvidia has also good reasons for not documenting their GPUs, and if not they can always hide behind third party IP, DRM concerns bla bla bla.

But they're not documenting anything, and AMD is documenting 99% of the stuff. Surely, that is a huge difference.

I have also very good reasons to pay only half price for any product containing a AMD GPU. Do you think AMD cares about my reasons? Of course not. Then why should I care about AMD's reasons to ship me a half broken product?

"half broken" is just the sort of exaggeration I'm referring to.

If you want to refer to AMD OSS drivers as "partly working", then you have to refer to Nvidia 's blob as "partly working" too, as not everything works under Linux.

[crazycheese]

Deanjo? No I'm just the way I am
Laptop: HD5470
Desktop: 5770 and 3300 onboard.

Why not 5850? Slow drivers? Or you don't need the performance? If latter, no wonder opensource suits you. You don't even have to put 8Gb of RAM then, 640k would be enough for anyone.

Wasted? Am I not getting the same FPS as you in Kwin? I buy my PC with overkill so that I can use it for a looooooong time up to the point it starts to seriously stutters due to new software being calculation intensive. In the end I save money. Also... do I 'waste' my 8GB RAM simply because I don't full it up? (pretty stupid to do so IMHO)

Pretty stupid you bought 8GB if you don't use it. But if you buy, it should kinda work, no? But it can only with AMD closed source driver and this worser than nvidia. You see my point?

Well guess what? It's better than Intel and nVidia's lack of ANY FUCKING DOCUMENTATION. Happier to have none? What is your logic? That of emotion?

Just USE THAT TON OF DOCUMENTATION TO BUILD YOUR BOAT ALREADY. Cause green-eyed package comes with ready boat.

I will now upgrade you to triple moron for trying to prove facts wrong by the fact stating popular opinion.

Yeah, I'm Commander Keen, I know it, I'm MOrooned on Mars.

Neither can't I, but UVD isn't required if you have even a remotely desent CPU that is no problem. So what's this giant show stopper? I also can't use Display Port and HDMI, because my monitor doesn't support it. So fucking what? I also not use the audio card on that Radeon because I don't use HDMI for audio. So what? Am I supposed to buy an HDMI monitor with speakers because else I would waste my card? How freaking retarted is that? Do you also cry when you waste three seats in your car because you can only sit on one? :')

Why the hell would you buy a car with three sits, if you use only one? Oh, because the driver actually drivers at 1/3 speed.

There is a Linux download option? Hello? Official support? Linux logo on the box? ... Well?

Well, bridgeman refused that. But nvidia - same, so lets start our company.

Seriously... what did you expect? You have this multi trillion gazillion dollar company that is going to change its own business strategy... just for you? LOL!

I thought the company should adapt the strategy just for you(and me). You know, just the garbage they put in econimical books. But its so damn big and ignorant to change THEIR OWN busy-ness strategy, no place for opensource. Y'right.

What the hell are you talking about? Normal guys browse the web, email and type some documents. What card on earth is not capable of accelerating a supporting compiziting desktop with free soft-... oh wait your nVidia card, I forgot. Sorry man...

Its not MY nvidia card, its nvidia card - I lease it. So do you with "your" AMD card. But the difference is that nvidia card supports linux more than amd both drivers combined, and this for years. Thats troubling. And the trouble won't change so fast, very possibly never for opensource driver. Talk about busy-ness strategy.

First, people bitch about no opennes about open source. Then AMD is open about their strategy. No people bitch about the fact that AMD has opened up documentation (or not fully due to DRM at their own legal risk, just for us nutjobs) and now people bitch that the proprietary driver is useful, they have four guys working on a FLOSS driver and have enough documentation for OpenGL 2.1?!?!? Schizofrenic behavior...

OpenGL 2 Supertuxkart utilizes over 80% GPU with opensource drivers. Go figure, mr nutjob. I prefer to position myself as linux user instead.

Me comprendo. Me also showy you proprietary AMDyo driverio. Working, da?

Working, no. Crashing, da. You showy me opensource AMDyo - freezing and crashing da.

[mirv]

yet another thread devolved into AMD bashing, and attempting to ignore the faults of nvidia drivers.
AMD & nivida blobs are about on par, if you don't include the video acceleration. Each have faults, just in different areas.
nvidia can not stand up to the open source drivers from AMD when viewed from the point of out of the box experience, and proper integration into an open and free software environment. If wayland takes off (which I have my own doubts about, so this is just an example), the open source drivers will work best for that.

[V!NCENT]

Why not 5850? Slow drivers? Or you don't need the performance? If latter, no wonder opensource suits you. You don't even have to put 8Gb of RAM then, 640k would be enough for anyone.

RAM is cheap? RAM > CPU. Now 4GB is already the standard. In two years you can bet your ass it is 8GB (the double) and thus I made the right configuration. My computer can easily do ten years before crumbling under the weight of newer software. So by buying a 1000 dollar PC I avoid having to do an upgrade every three years. 1000/10=100 euro's a year. 100*3 years=300 dollar. For 300 dollar you can't buy a reasonable computer.

As for the AMD card: as time goes by, performance of the 3D driver goes up. That means I'm pretty much in the clear as well.

Pretty stupid you bought 8GB if you don't use it. But if you buy, it should kinda work, no? But it can only with AMD closed source driver and this worser than nvidia. You see my point?

60 dollars at that time for never having to use swap in ten years. You see the point?

Why the hell would you buy a car with three sits, if you use only one? Oh, because the driver actually drivers at 1/3 speed.

Yes it is slower. Your point?

Its not MY nvidia card, its nvidia card - I lease it. So do you with "your" AMD card. But the difference is that nvidia card supports linux more than amd both drivers combined, and this for years. Thats troubling. And the trouble won't change so fast, very possibly never for opensource driver. Talk about busy-ness strategy.

I lease my card? I bought it. EULA? -> GPL. LOL you failed very hard Given that you morooned to Mars I am not going to upgrade you now

OpenGL 2 Supertuxkart utilizes over 80% GPU with opensource drivers. Go figure, mr nutjob. I prefer to position myself as linux user instead.

Errrr Tomb Raider Anniversary (look up the release date and graphics) manage to run at 30fps with very nice graphics under Wine. Sometimes there is a very tiny shader texture somewhere that is not updated but that's so rare that I don't care.

Working, no. Crashing, da. You showy me opensource AMDyo - freezing and crashing da.

I'll make a screencast if you want, showing it is perfectly working. Tell me how to make it crash so I can prove my point that it doesn't.

[crazycheese]

yet another thread devolved into AMD bashing, and attempting to ignore the faults of nvidia drivers.
AMD & nivida blobs are about on par, if you don't include the video acceleration. Each have faults, just in different areas.
nvidia can not stand up to the open source drivers from AMD when viewed from the point of out of the box experience, and proper integration into an open and free software environment. If wayland takes off (which I have my own doubts about, so this is just an example), the open source drivers will work best for that.

Yet another useless post? Seriously, this isn't kindergarden and internet is full of garbage like from "gtxrxx"(or how that nvidia-guy called himself?) and microsoft-lover "thatguy".
Anything I mentioned was unappliable to amd?
What are the faults of nvidia drivers, except SLI, multimonitor and root-started Xorg? Catalyst has all them plus more(which is understandable due to pre-2009 complete lack of linux attention from ATI).

You can just forget all your pro's of amd opensource drivers, because its not driver but a development program. A driver is supposed to "drive" the hardware efficiently. This is accomplished by catalyst, made by then ati, now amd. Same with nvidia. The only reason for state of opensource driver is because it is not considered as a driver FROM AMD by amd. It is technology demonstration, educational model, student pile. Anything, but a driver. Same as linux kernel was at its roots. But linux became what it is only due to attention and patches from corporate entities, by far not only free hackers. AMD should not view opensource driver as opencore method to angle new ideas, but view it as additional force to its existing crew - this is only possible with opensource.

[mirv]

Yet another useless post? Seriously, this isn't kindergarden and internet is full of garbage like from "gtxrxx"(or how that nvidia-guy called himself?) and microsoft-lover "thatguy".
Anything I mentioned was unappliable to amd?
What are the faults of nvidia drivers, except SLI, multimonitor and root-started Xorg? Catalyst has all them plus more(which is understandable due to pre-2009 complete lack of linux attention from ATI).

You can just forget all your pro's of amd opensource drivers, because its not driver but a development program. A driver is supposed to "drive" the hardware efficiently. This is accomplished by catalyst, made by then ati, now amd. Same with nvidia. The only reason for state of opensource driver is because it is not considered as a driver FROM AMD by amd. It is technology demonstration, educational model, student pile. Anything, but a driver. Same as linux kernel was at its roots. But linux became what it is only due to attention and patches from corporate entities, by far not only free hackers. AMD should not view opensource driver as opencore method to angle new ideas, but view it as additional force to its existing crew - this is only possible with opensource.

Strange comment considering that I see lots of "amd drivers are bad" without actually stating what is supposedly bad.
Also interesting in your rather...poor...view of free hackers (which do an awful lot more than you seem to think). And by the way - one of those corporations that has made quite an investment into Linux was, and is, AMD.

[crazycheese]

RAM is cheap? RAM > CPU. Now 4GB is already the standard. In two years you can bet your ass it is 8GB (the double) and thus I made the right configuration. My computer can easily do ten years before crumbling under the weight of newer software. So by buying a 1000 dollar PC I avoid having to do an upgrade every three years. 1000/10=100 euro's a year. 100*3 years=300 dollar. For 300 dollar you can't buy a reasonable computer.

60 dollars at that time for never having to use swap in ten years. You see the point?

Yes it is slower. Your point?

Your logic has some fails. First, the real bottleneck is hard disk. The NANDs are very low quality and very high price/performance now, so there is currently no ways to cut costs. My 10 year old athlon 3200 with 1gb of ram was sufficient over whole period, quad cores inclusive.

But it wasn't the point of discussion.

The point is, if we project the current AMD opensource driver state to RAM chips(thanks to von Neumann we don't need a driver for them) , you would have 2GiBs free out of 8GiBs installed. You invest 60 dollars and have 15 dollar effect. Consuming whole as-if "60 dollar" electricity. Producing as-if "60-dollar" heat. Delivering as-if "60 dollar" features. Thanks only to driver. Which AMD writes happily for windows for free.

As for the AMD card: as time goes by, performance of the 3D driver goes up. That means I'm pretty much in the clear as well.

Not always the case. Low-end cards exist even now, and they cannot beat 10 year old hi-end cards. Nothing out of the ordinary though.

I lease my card? I bought it. EULA? -> GPL. LOL you failed very hard Given that you morooned to Mars I am not going to upgrade you now

You lease your card, if its something new to you. The hardware is not covered by GPL, but belongs to AMD/Nvidia. You bought the ability to use your card only.

Errrr Tomb Raider Anniversary (look up the release date and graphics) manage to run at 30fps with very nice graphics under Wine. Sometimes there is a very tiny shader texture somewhere that is not updated but that's so rare that I don't care.

I don't have the game, but every time I used Supertuxcard the bottleneck was CPU. Where on nvidia blob the bottleneck was GPU, CPU idled.

I'll make a screencast if you want, showing it is perfectly working. Tell me how to make it crash so I can prove my point that it doesn't.

I don't need your screencast, I used git versions of opensource driver (et al components, libdrm, kernel, mesa etc) with 4770 for more than a year and I had kernel panics, low performance and low features. Hence I use nvidia now.

[crazycheese]

Strange comment considering that I see lots of "amd drivers are bad" without actually stating what is supposedly bad.

Just compare opensource driver to nvidia blob or even catalyst.

Also interesting in your rather...poor...view of free hackers (which do an awful lot more than you seem to think). And by the way - one of those corporations that has made quite an investment into Linux was, and is, AMD.

Poor view of free hackers stating themself that nvidia blob currently has the best graphic implementation on linux from all? Poor company, not hackers. Ideally you have hackers hacking new features and not doing company job.