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  • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
    I do have to hand it to you, deanjo, that was your best line yet:

    KDE worked perfectly with Nvidia, other than the parts that involved using the graphics driver.

    That is not what I said at all.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by pvtcupcakes View Post
      I remember back in like KDE 4.1 or 4.2 Plasma ran like molasses on Nvidia blobs. I do remember it was fixed, but for a while Plasma was practically unusable. I'm pretty sure the issue was present without desktop effects enabled.

      Like Plasma or not, the panels in KDE are Plasma. As well as everything on them are Plasma as well.
      That maybe, I didn't start running KDE 4 until the 4.3 series.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
        That luck has extended over ten years of generations of cards and many many many distro upgrades. At that point it isn't "luck" it is expected behaviour vs your anomaly.
        6 years on Nvidia, and the thing happened with any driver. Sure, let's trade anecdotes.

        It is not "grey" at all, it is very black and white.
        It's very black and white that GPL prohibits closed-source derivatives.

        The grey part is whether a binary blob injected into a Linux kernel, which cannot possibly work without the Linux kernel, and has no purpose outside of the Linux kernel, and uses Linux kernel internals is considered a "derivative".

        Linus (and many others) think that it does. It hasn't been tested in court, because they are nice people.

        And your point is? Any bug report that is not a kernel issue is refused open or closed.
        I'm not talking about blob bugs, I'm talking about kernel bugs.

        If you use a blob, the kernel guys will not look at your bugs. Kernel bugs, sound bugs, filesystem bugs, USB bugs, anything. If your kernel is tainted, bye bye.

        Are you being intentionally obtuse? If you use a blob, the Linux kernel developers don't want to talk to you, or have any contact with you.

        and yet nvidia's track record is still very good at fixing the issues.
        They also have a track record of breaking applications with new drivers. Recently, vim (actually, most threaded apps) and KDE.

        The process is not transparent, and using the blob amounts to voodo prayer, hoping that the next one will work.

        100 qualified employees vs a bunch of hobbyist hmmmmm, I know which I pick for the best chances of support.
        The ones who are experts at writing Linux drivers, of course.

        Preferably, not a bunch of Windows developers whose primary interest is obfuscating trade secrets.

        Just saying that from a practical point of view "wobbly windows" does zero for productivity. Never the less if that eye candy is wanted it runs fine too.
        Yes, years later, it runs OK.

        Konsole is still broken on FX5200, but since this is legacy, it will be broken forever.

        It's very interesting to see what people find important. Vim and konsole get broken, but you get more FPS on WorKrafT. For people who like getting work done, the priorities are different

        Comment


        • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
          That is not what I said at all.
          Well, KWin and Plasma are the only parts of KDE which actually make any use of your graphics card capabilities, other than having a large framebuffer.

          That maybe, I didn't start running KDE 4 until the 4.3 series.
          Yes, if you are willing to wait 3 years after some software is introduced until nvidia irons out all the bugs, then it's OK

          During KDE 4.2, it was very painful. And there was no free driver to fall back to. How much nicer it would have been if nouveau were an option back then...

          Konsole working, desktop working, VTs working, no xorg.conf, you can actually DO WORK without fiddling with experimental binary drivers hoping that half of your konsole screen is not corrupted......

          Comment


          • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
            6 years on Nvidia, and the thing happened with any driver. Sure, let's trade anecdotes.
            Sounds like bad hardware or bad user. Take your pick.

            It's very black and white that GPL prohibits closed-source derivatives.

            The grey part is whether a binary blob injected into a Linux kernel, which cannot possibly work without the Linux kernel, and has no purpose outside of the Linux kernel, and uses Linux kernel internals is considered a "derivative".

            Linus (and many others) think that it does. It hasn't been tested in court, because they are nice people.
            Yup sounds like a lot of sword rattling, never the less until proven otherwise it is legal, period.

            I'm not talking about blob bugs, I'm talking about kernel bugs.

            If you use a blob, the kernel guys will not look at your bugs. Kernel bugs, sound bugs, filesystem bugs, USB bugs, anything. If your kernel is tainted, bye bye.

            Are you being intentionally obtuse? If you use a blob, the Linux kernel developers don't want to talk to you, or have any contact with you.
            You know that is a lot of horseshit. Many bugs have been filed against the kernel and addressed with blobs in place. It is only bugs that involve related resources that they will not address.

            They also have a track record of breaking applications with new drivers. Recently, vim (actually, most threaded apps) and KDE.
            LMAO, and FOSS drivers never break anything do they? (BTW those issues have been fixed).

            The process is not transparent, and using the blob amounts to voodo prayer, hoping that the next one will work.
            And using a free driver also requires a lot of dependency on others to fix an issue for 99.9% of the people out there who are not driver developers. Same shit different pile.

            Yes, years later, it runs OK.

            Konsole is still broken on FX5200, but since this is legacy, it will be broken forever.

            It's very interesting to see what people find important. Vim and konsole get broken, but you get more FPS on WorKrafT. For people who like getting work done, the priorities are different
            Years later? LMAO, that is hardly the case as almost all of that stuff was developed using nvidia blobs.

            Comment


            • If you're so against open source drivers, and so in favour of nvidia and closed source software....why are you using linux?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by mirv View Post
                If you're so against open source drivers, and so in favour of nvidia and closed source software....why are you using linux?
                Because the above mentioned setup fits my needs perfectly. Again, I am not against open source drivers simply that I am in favour of the best performing solution for my uses and that would be nvidia blob/linux.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                  Sounds like bad hardware or bad user. Take your pick.
                  I am not as advanced as you, I simply install the magical nvidia driver using the magical package.

                  If I were as advanced and magical as you, everything would work, and there would be shiny pink elephant singing the Barney theme song in my room.

                  But alas, I guess that I am not advanced enough for the binary driver. That's why I stick to pulling experimental git drivers which, strangely, don't hose my system when switching VTs.

                  Yup sounds like a lot of sword rattling, never the less until proven otherwise it is legal, period.
                  That's a very odd approach to law. If somebody doesn't sue you, then everything is legal

                  You know that is a lot of horseshit. Many bugs have been filed against the kernel and addressed with blobs in place. It is only bugs that involve related resources that they will not address.
                  You are truly Mr. Disinformation:

                  http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/docs/lkml/#s1-18

                  What does it mean for a module to be tainted?
                  (REG, contributed by John Levon) Some vendors distribute binary modules (i.e. modules without available source code under a free software license). As the source is not freely available, any bugs uncovered whilst such modules are loaded cannot be investigated by the kernel hackers. All problems discovered whilst such a module is loaded must be reported to the vendor of that module, not the Linux kernel hackers and the linux-kernel mailing list. The tainting scheme is used to identify bug reports from kernels with binary modules loaded: such kernels are marked as "tainted" by means of the MODULE_LICENSE tag. If a module is loaded that does not specify an approved license, the kernel is marked as tainted. The canonical list of approved license strings is in linux/include/linux/module.h.
                  "oops" reports marked as tainted are of no use to the kernel developers and will be ignored. A warning is output when such a module is loaded. Note that you may come across module source that is under a compatible license, but does not have a suitable MODULE_LICENSE tag. If you see a warning from modprobe or insmod


                  LMAO, and FOSS drivers never break anything do they? (BTW those issues have been fixed).
                  Of course they do. Unlike nvidia fanboys, our shit stinks just like any other shit.

                  But your argument is that blobs are perfect and OSS drivers are imperfect.

                  The fact is, both have their issues. From a performance and OpenGL-conformance point of view, the blobs are better, but have their own problems, own bugs and own annoyances.

                  And using a free driver also requires a lot of dependency on others to fix an issue for 99.9% of the people out there who are not driver developers. Same shit different pile.
                  Yet the code is open, and the process is more transparent and it's easier to pinpoint bugs.

                  Years later? LMAO, that is hardly the case as almost all of that stuff was developed using nvidia blobs.
                  Says the guy who admits to not having used KDE during this time, to the guy who was using it.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                    Because the above mentioned setup fits my needs perfectly. Again, I am not against open source drivers simply that I am in favour of the best performing solution for my uses and that would be nvidia blob/linux.
                    Fair enough. For my own setup, the best solution is with AMD and the proprietary drivers (need OpenGL 3.x/4.x).
                    The beauty of competition and choice.

                    Comment


                    • I understand deanjo's position.

                      He is a hardcore pragmatist, who wants the tools that get the job done.

                      He is also deeply skeptical of open source software and the open source community. If he had the option of jumping to a purely closed-source system at the same price, he would.

                      As it stands, some of his needs are best served by open software, and some by closed software, so he's running a hybrid Windows-Linux Frankenstein monster.

                      As soon as Windows offers him what he needs, he'll be gone.

                      Comment

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