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  • Have you realized you are trying to speak to someone who doesn't even know if R500 is opengl3 capable?

    Originally posted by deanjo View Post
    The nvidia blobs haven't required to run as root for a long time now.
    Source please.
    ## VGA ##
    AMD: X1950XTX, HD3870, HD5870
    Intel: GMA45, HD3000 (Core i5 2500K)

    Comment


    • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
      Being lucky is not a good basis for OS stability
      That luck has extended over ten years of generations of cards and many many many distro upgrades. At that point it isn't "luck" it is expected behaviour vs your anomaly.

      It's a grey area at best. Enough to make most people involved with Linux very wary of the blobs.
      It is not "grey" at all, it is very black and white.

      Neither did I. Don't throw red herrings.

      Kernel hackers refuse bug reports involving tainted kernels. KERNEL BUG REPORTS.
      And your point is? Any bug report that is not a kernel issue is refused open or closed.

      And nobody else. Not kernel guys, not KDE guys, not GNOME guys, nobody. So OSS gets workarounds for this crap instead of fixing it at the source.
      And yet nvidia's track record is still very good at fixing the issues.

      No, for anyone except the 100 Nvidia employees. The graphic driver developers working for RedHat or VMware can't do anything about it either.
      100 qualified employees vs a bunch of hobbyist hmmmmm, I know which I pick for the best chances of support.

      Wow, that's a great argument.

      I don't need CUDA or OpenGL4. Therefore, they don't matter.
      Just saying that from a practical point of view "wobbly windows" does zero for productivity. Never the less if that eye candy is wanted it runs fine too.

      Yes. Because they maintain one of the most popular Linux distros around, and have to live with packaging the blob crap and all the trouble that goes with it.
      I've packaged them myself many many many times myself and it has never been a headache as you have described. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by darkbasic View Post
        Have you realized you are trying to speak to someone who doesn't even know if R500 is opengl3 capable?


        Source please.
        Read the links provided in the previous posts.

        Comment


        • Applications like Maya, and I guess Blender, are targetted by AMD with the proprietary drivers. If you're really serious about using things like that, and I mean on a professional level, then you're likely to always be using the proprietary drivers.
          Those applications are not really the target of the open source drivers, though I expect that they'll run on them (if not now, then eventually).
          Now I've nothing against people not liking software from [company X], probably written by aliens, but offering some decent reasons ("because it sucks" is not a decent reason) and respecting that others have a different view does go a long way.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
            I do have to hand it to you, deanjo, that was your best line yet:

            KDE worked perfectly with Nvidia, other than the parts that involved using the graphics driver.

            That is not what I said at all.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by pvtcupcakes View Post
              I remember back in like KDE 4.1 or 4.2 Plasma ran like molasses on Nvidia blobs. I do remember it was fixed, but for a while Plasma was practically unusable. I'm pretty sure the issue was present without desktop effects enabled.

              Like Plasma or not, the panels in KDE are Plasma. As well as everything on them are Plasma as well.
              That maybe, I didn't start running KDE 4 until the 4.3 series.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                That luck has extended over ten years of generations of cards and many many many distro upgrades. At that point it isn't "luck" it is expected behaviour vs your anomaly.
                6 years on Nvidia, and the thing happened with any driver. Sure, let's trade anecdotes.

                It is not "grey" at all, it is very black and white.
                It's very black and white that GPL prohibits closed-source derivatives.

                The grey part is whether a binary blob injected into a Linux kernel, which cannot possibly work without the Linux kernel, and has no purpose outside of the Linux kernel, and uses Linux kernel internals is considered a "derivative".

                Linus (and many others) think that it does. It hasn't been tested in court, because they are nice people.

                And your point is? Any bug report that is not a kernel issue is refused open or closed.
                I'm not talking about blob bugs, I'm talking about kernel bugs.

                If you use a blob, the kernel guys will not look at your bugs. Kernel bugs, sound bugs, filesystem bugs, USB bugs, anything. If your kernel is tainted, bye bye.

                Are you being intentionally obtuse? If you use a blob, the Linux kernel developers don't want to talk to you, or have any contact with you.

                and yet nvidia's track record is still very good at fixing the issues.
                They also have a track record of breaking applications with new drivers. Recently, vim (actually, most threaded apps) and KDE.

                The process is not transparent, and using the blob amounts to voodo prayer, hoping that the next one will work.

                100 qualified employees vs a bunch of hobbyist hmmmmm, I know which I pick for the best chances of support.
                The ones who are experts at writing Linux drivers, of course.

                Preferably, not a bunch of Windows developers whose primary interest is obfuscating trade secrets.

                Just saying that from a practical point of view "wobbly windows" does zero for productivity. Never the less if that eye candy is wanted it runs fine too.
                Yes, years later, it runs OK.

                Konsole is still broken on FX5200, but since this is legacy, it will be broken forever.

                It's very interesting to see what people find important. Vim and konsole get broken, but you get more FPS on WorKrafT. For people who like getting work done, the priorities are different

                Comment


                • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                  That is not what I said at all.
                  Well, KWin and Plasma are the only parts of KDE which actually make any use of your graphics card capabilities, other than having a large framebuffer.

                  That maybe, I didn't start running KDE 4 until the 4.3 series.
                  Yes, if you are willing to wait 3 years after some software is introduced until nvidia irons out all the bugs, then it's OK

                  During KDE 4.2, it was very painful. And there was no free driver to fall back to. How much nicer it would have been if nouveau were an option back then...

                  Konsole working, desktop working, VTs working, no xorg.conf, you can actually DO WORK without fiddling with experimental binary drivers hoping that half of your konsole screen is not corrupted......

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                  • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                    6 years on Nvidia, and the thing happened with any driver. Sure, let's trade anecdotes.
                    Sounds like bad hardware or bad user. Take your pick.

                    It's very black and white that GPL prohibits closed-source derivatives.

                    The grey part is whether a binary blob injected into a Linux kernel, which cannot possibly work without the Linux kernel, and has no purpose outside of the Linux kernel, and uses Linux kernel internals is considered a "derivative".

                    Linus (and many others) think that it does. It hasn't been tested in court, because they are nice people.
                    Yup sounds like a lot of sword rattling, never the less until proven otherwise it is legal, period.

                    I'm not talking about blob bugs, I'm talking about kernel bugs.

                    If you use a blob, the kernel guys will not look at your bugs. Kernel bugs, sound bugs, filesystem bugs, USB bugs, anything. If your kernel is tainted, bye bye.

                    Are you being intentionally obtuse? If you use a blob, the Linux kernel developers don't want to talk to you, or have any contact with you.
                    You know that is a lot of horseshit. Many bugs have been filed against the kernel and addressed with blobs in place. It is only bugs that involve related resources that they will not address.

                    They also have a track record of breaking applications with new drivers. Recently, vim (actually, most threaded apps) and KDE.
                    LMAO, and FOSS drivers never break anything do they? (BTW those issues have been fixed).

                    The process is not transparent, and using the blob amounts to voodo prayer, hoping that the next one will work.
                    And using a free driver also requires a lot of dependency on others to fix an issue for 99.9% of the people out there who are not driver developers. Same shit different pile.

                    Yes, years later, it runs OK.

                    Konsole is still broken on FX5200, but since this is legacy, it will be broken forever.

                    It's very interesting to see what people find important. Vim and konsole get broken, but you get more FPS on WorKrafT. For people who like getting work done, the priorities are different
                    Years later? LMAO, that is hardly the case as almost all of that stuff was developed using nvidia blobs.

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                    • If you're so against open source drivers, and so in favour of nvidia and closed source software....why are you using linux?

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