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  • #11
    Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
    Why? Because you think that you can see, process, and react to something in 1/60th of a second?

    ... I highly doubt that.
    You need a high fps to do the special tricks that the hardcore gamers use. 20fps won't help. even 60fps is barely scraping it in. I played a state champion and he made sure to get a min of 120fps peaking at 200fps. The idea is not about reaction times but improving the flow of the engine to allow special moves.

    John Carmack wrote an article about a flaw in the game engine that allowed skip jumps and bunny hopping in the original quake engine. It's interesting to note that these flaws or so called features don't exist at lower fps because they were never intended to be that way in the first place. These days though, games rely these "flaws" in order to improve gameplay and allow more skilled players to get the most of the game.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by b15hop View Post
      You need a high fps to do the special tricks that the hardcore gamers use. 20fps won't help. even 60fps is barely scraping it in. I played a state champion and he made sure to get a min of 120fps peaking at 200fps. The idea is not about reaction times but improving the flow of the engine to allow special moves.

      John Carmack wrote an article about a flaw in the game engine that allowed skip jumps and bunny hopping in the original quake engine. It's interesting to note that these flaws or so called features don't exist at lower fps because they were never intended to be that way in the first place. These days though, games rely these "flaws" in order to improve gameplay and allow more skilled players to get the most of the game.
      Ok, so you want high-fps so that you can CHEAT.
      Got ya.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
        Ok, so you want high-fps so that you can CHEAT.
        Got ya.
        It's not a cheat in the newer games have bunny hopping as a feature. You're saying it's a cheat because you've never experienced the game long enough to understand what that high fps allows. Are you saying that you'd prefer low fps? No fps? The more fps usually means more headroom for better graphics or smoother gameplay.

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        • #14
          ioquake has introduced accurate physics, and can simulate 125fps physics at any framerate, though, so this is not that much of an issue anymore.

          The input handling, however, is. In ioquake, the input handling is (or at least was) done between the frames. This means that an unstable frame rate will give you unpredictable mouse tracking. Enough to miss shots and trickier jumps, whenever you get a drop in fps.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by droidhacker View Post
            Ok, so you want high-fps so that you can CHEAT.
            Got ya.
            125 fps is the competition standard. It's not cheating, its' the physics that everyone is used to.

            That's how the game works, and how it's worked for the last 10 years. It's a bit antiquated and strange, but that's how it works.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
              ioquake has introduced accurate physics, and can simulate 125fps physics at any framerate, though, so this is not that much of an issue anymore.

              The input handling, however, is. In ioquake, the input handling is (or at least was) done between the frames. This means that an unstable frame rate will give you unpredictable mouse tracking. Enough to miss shots and trickier jumps, whenever you get a drop in fps.
              Yep, the typical game engine was once a loop where graphics and physics were off beat. These days however, I'm guessing that multi core systems allow the input to be processed in real time while the graphics just keeps pace at it's own rate. Otherwise a drop in fps can mean huge flaws in the physics part of the engine.

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              • #17
                droidhacker: Infact you can cheat in some games by lowering the fps in order to do things that can't be done at high fps... slow down time for example. Depends on the game engine.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                  125 fps is the competition standard. It's not cheating, its' the physics that everyone is used to.

                  That's how the game works, and how it's worked for the last 10 years. It's a bit antiquated and strange, but that's how it works.
                  Yeah it's become a standard because the mouse polling rate was 125fps. Which sort of become the defacto standard.

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                  • #19
                    pingufunkybeat: These days though, with high speed USB mice and the likes, it's subjective whether 125 is the right speed. Also note that our eyes can pick up 5ms on the outside edges but the screen we look at only uses the part of our eye that handles time intervals of 30ms to 10ms

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by b15hop View Post
                      Otherwise a drop in fps can mean huge flaws in the physics part of the engine.
                      That's why people used to set their games to run at a high (responsive input) and stable (predictable physics and input) frame rates.

                      The quirkiness of the Quake engines -- using ints instead of floats to save bandwidth in mid 1990s -- caused rounding errors and other physics issues which add to this.

                      Nowadays, a stable performance capped to your monitor's vertical refresh is all you need with a modern engine. Even ioquake3 has been upgraded and uses floats throughout.

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