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  • #51
    Originally posted by energyman View Post
    yeah, hurt the company that works together with the FLOSS communty to create good open drivers. That is such a smart choice....

    and if you think the nvidia drivers are great, go to the nvnews forum.
    I KNOW that they're BETTER than ATI's as I've used nVidia cards for years and never had the half-assed problems that I've had with ATI's drivers. ATI's drivers just plain suck.

    As a matter of fact the ONLY problems that I had with nVidia drivers were with their nForce chipsets and onboard ethernet which always eventually flaked out. Given that this was common with mbs from MANY makers I'd hazard that the root cause of the problem was with nForce. Of course it was simple for me to workaround as I have several PCI ethernet boards lying around so simply disabled onboard and installed a PCI card.

    As to FLOSS: I'm a pragmatist and have ALWAYS been turned off by the OSS extremists, so thanks for re-inforcing that view yet again.

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    • #52
      I have used nvidia for years too. And I can tell you something: they have their share of problems too.
      But the worst part: if they don't work, you don't have any alternative.

      I am not an FLOSS extremist, I am a pragmatist myself - and I am sick of people who call themselves 'pragmatiot' as a cheap excuse. You are probably just a windows user too cheap to buy a windows 7 licence.

      Comment


      • #53
        fglrx 10.4 is the first driver that works for me without problems (HD4770, openSUSE Factory). Only disadvantage to nvidia is that xvba is less stable than vdpau. And the vdpau deinterlacing functions (temporal spacial) give incredible results where xvba only has BOB deinterlacing and much likely will never have better than that.
        And the fglrx installer is just a pain in the ass where the nvidia installer just does what it should do...
        But all in all the latest fglrx driver is a great improvement to the crap it was a few months ago.

        Comment


        • #54
          Originally posted by cutterjohn View Post
          I KNOW that they're BETTER than ATI's as I've used nVidia cards for years and never had the half-assed problems that I've had with ATI's drivers. ATI's drivers just plain suck.
          well...i'm a recent convert to ATI...my first linux box had an Nvidia TNT 32mb and my home desktop/laptops have always had nvidia since then... I agree they both have their issues...but it's not as one-sided as you're suggesting. for instance...how's that xrandr support working out for you with nvidia? still can only rotate a monitor and that's it? after nvidia explicitly stated years ago they'd add xrandr support?

          at least with ati i can control my outputs the same way as i do on my work laptop with intel graphics. with nvidia you're locked into using their management app, and cannot hotkey/script monitor enable/disable because their utility can only handle such operations via GUI

          for that reason alone i consider ATI's driver far more complete and useable. this is BASIC, CORE functionality that nvidia has yet to implement.

          so i would argue you don't "know"...you think, and have you own opinions on things just like the rest of us.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by fluxion View Post
            well...i'm a recent convert to ATI...my first linux box had an Nvidia TNT 32mb and my home desktop/laptops have always had nvidia since then...
            And unbeleivably the TNT is still supported by binary drivers.

            Originally posted by fluxion View Post
            I agree they both have their issues...but it's not as one-sided as you're suggesting.
            There's no perfect graphics solution for Linux. This is partially due to the platform itself though. But of course each of us can only select the least worst option for our own particular use cases.

            Originally posted by fluxion View Post
            for instance...how's that xrandr support working out for you with nvidia? still can only rotate a monitor and that's it? after nvidia explicitly stated years ago they'd add xrandr support?
            Well they've added xrandr 1.2 but we're still waiting for 1.3

            Originally posted by fluxion View Post
            at least with ati i can control my outputs the same way as i do on my work laptop with intel graphics. with nvidia you're locked into using their management app,
            Nope, they have a command line interface that can control every option available in the GUI.

            Originally posted by fluxion View Post
            and cannot hotkey/script monitor enable/disable because their utility can only handle such operations via GUI
            Yes you can.

            Originally posted by fluxion View Post
            for that reason alone i consider ATI's driver far more complete and useable. this is BASIC, CORE functionality that nvidia has yet to implement.
            See above.

            Originally posted by fluxion View Post
            so i would argue you don't "know"...you think, and have you own opinions on things just like the rest of us.
            Facts:

            *There are no perfect Linux solution. ATI, nVidia and Intel have issues. You can pick the one that works best for your personal needs.
            *In the past nVidia's driver has been vastly superior. The gap between ATI and nVidia is closing.

            Comment


            • #56
              Originally posted by Qaridarium
              i have a frend with a geforce 8600

              but he is not happy on nvidia...:
              That's surprising. I was using a 8600 myself a while ago and found it outstanding.

              Originally posted by Qaridarium
              if he use dualscreen on 2 tfts flash lag as hell 2 seconds on every key or mause input mega lag! if he turns of the dualscreen ans only use 2D desktop flash runs better!
              It will be fantastic when Adobe get with the program and target the Linux platform correctly instead if trying to program it as if it was Windows.

              I'm using a 9800GT with two 24" Acer screens (each 1920x1200) and it's excellent when used with Flash. It was also good for me with the 8600GT and two screens as well. Obviously things have changed

              Originally posted by Qaridarium
              and ! flash runs much better on my PC with the Radeon opensource driver!
              Which card do you have?

              Originally posted by Qaridarium
              wine... he can't play starcraft2 because the geforce8600 is to slow...
              You should perhaps suggest he buy a new ATI one?

              Originally posted by Qaridarium
              he also have problems with the 3D-desktop so he turns of the 3D desktop...
              This I find very strange. nVidia has legendary support for both Compiz and Kwin. Perhaps he may have a configuration problem. Who knows though I guess.

              Originally posted by Qaridarium
              wow nice nvidia world...!

              (he uses the newest ubuntu 10.04!)
              Compare fglrx and nVidia blob accross a wide range of target configurations. I think you'll find the nVidia blob is quite good when compared to the alternatives.

              Thankfully fglrx is improving though so I may be able to buy my 5870 soon no?

              Comment


              • #57
                Maybe he does not use nvidia binary but nouveau.

                Comment


                • #58
                  Originally posted by Kano View Post
                  Maybe he does not use nvidia binary but nouveau.
                  Very good point.

                  If he is using a FOSS driver with nVidia he's in for a world of pain. If he can't bring himself to use a closed driver he should immediately rush out and buy an ATI card.

                  Comment


                  • #59
                    Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                    There's no perfect graphics solution for Linux. This is partially due to the platform itself though. But of course each of us can only select the least worst option for our own particular use cases.
                    exactly my point...i hope didnt come off as trying to win some kind of ati vs. nvidia war. i was just pointing out that there are things to complain about on both sides. different users have different needs and those needs will affect their perception of who has the better product.

                    Well they've added xrandr 1.2 but we're still waiting for 1.3
                    do you mean RandR 1.1, which basically only handles rotation and setting res on a single display? the "explicitly stated" i referred to was the one mentioned in this phoronix article from Dec 2008:

                    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NjkwMw

                    There was an interview with an nvidia developer in Oct 2009 where he basically apologized for randr 1.2/1.3 support having been de-prioritized off the cut-off line:

                    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...vidia_qa_linux

                    Originally posted by NVIDIA's Andy Ritger
                    Q: How are NVIDIA's efforts going in supporting RandR 1.2/1.3 within the driver?

                    I really apologize that RandR 1.2+ support on NVIDIA has been so long in coming. When it first came up, the urgency didn't seem very high, because we already had our dynamic TwinView support. Then, numerous other projects came up and took precedence. Since then, RandR has suffered from hovering just below the cut-line.

                    I really hope we can get back to this soon.
                    If this is no longer the case then props to Nvidia. Again, I'm not trying to start a flamewar here. But I was waiting for support long before they made that statement in 2008, and I guess they were just a tad too late for me.

                    Nope, they have a command line interface that can control every option available in the GUI.
                    you can save/restore configs via commandline with nvidia-settings, which results in roughly the same functionality. is this what you're referring to? i tried to make it clear that such functionality did exist, but did not work with regard to things like disabling 1 secondary monitor and then switching on another secondary monitor....possibly because no notion of ordering is enforced, so may it try to enable all 3 outputs before disabling one...etc..i dont know..it just didnt work...nvidia-settings would not process the configs when i tried to do stuff like that.

                    in fairness, xrandr is the same way, but since i can do things in steps instead of one big batch of settings this type of thing isnt an issue.

                    in fact, there was fairly popular 3rd party utility that was written explicitly to work around this limitation. i forgot the name of it...

                    *There are no perfect Linux solution. ATI, nVidia and Intel have issues. You can pick the one that works best for your personal needs.
                    agreed

                    *In the past nVidia's driver has been vastly superior. The gap between ATI and nVidia is closing.
                    that's the thing for me...i beared it for over 10 years out of sheer joy that a company like nvidia would bless us lowly linux guys with support for their world-class graphics hardware....but then I see a company like ATI/AMD close the gap (and surpass, in some cases) them in a few years time and can't help but feel a little disenchanted.

                    but that's just full disclosure in my part, and not the point i'm trying to make...all i mean to say is that for some users, like me, ati has the better package now, and statements like "I KNOW that they're BETTER than ATI's" are (as I'm sure you'd agree) false, because I've certainly given Nvidia a fair amount of time and money and understanding yet in the end I have a better experience with ATI.

                    Comment


                    • #60
                      Originally posted by fluxion View Post
                      exactly my point...i hope didnt come off as trying to win some kind of ati vs. nvidia war. i was just pointing out that there are things to complain about on both sides. different users have different needs and those needs will affect their perception of who has the better product.
                      Mostly what surprised me was when you said;

                      Originally posted by fluxion View Post
                      for that reason alone i consider ATI's driver far more complete and useable. this is BASIC, CORE functionality that nvidia has yet to implement.
                      When you need software that wont work well with an ATI card, whether or not you have xrandr support can be mute point. I consider software compatibility as more important but as you rightly raise, different people have different priories.

                      Originally posted by fluxion View Post
                      do you mean RandR 1.1, which basically only handles rotation and setting res on a single display? the "explicitly stated" i referred to was the one mentioned in this phoronix article from Dec 2008:

                      http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=NjkwMw

                      There was an interview with an nvidia developer in Oct 2009 where he basically apologized for randr 1.2/1.3 support having been de-prioritized off the cut-off line:

                      http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...vidia_qa_linux



                      If this is no longer the case then props to Nvidia. Again, I'm not trying to start a flamewar here. But I was waiting for support long before they made that statement in 2008, and I guess they were just a tad too late for me.
                      Well given that nVidia provide a public API to a vast list of configuration settings it seems quite a bit more flexable. But if you cant code then that of course is of no use, but...

                      Originally posted by fluxion View Post
                      you can save/restore configs via commandline with nvidia-settings, which results in roughly the same functionality. is this what you're referring to? i tried to make it clear that such functionality did exist, but did not work with regard to things like disabling 1 secondary monitor and then switching on another secondary monitor....possibly because no notion of ordering is enforced, so may it try to enable all 3 outputs before disabling one...etc..i dont know..it just didnt work...nvidia-settings would not process the configs when i tried to do stuff like that.

                      in fairness, xrandr is the same way, but since i can do things in steps instead of one big batch of settings this type of thing isnt an issue.

                      in fact, there was fairly popular 3rd party utility that was written explicitly to work around this limitation. i forgot the name of it...

                      Thankfully for us nVidia users Willem van Engen has come to our rescue with a utility called Disper that provides a fair degree of control via the command line. Is that the one you're speaking of?

                      http://willem.engen.nl/projects/disper/

                      I've only tested it on Kubuntu 10.04 with the bundled blob so haven't done tonnes of testage to test every aspect of it but it does seem fairly full featured.

                      Originally posted by fluxion View Post
                      that's the thing for me...i beared it for over 10 years out of sheer joy that a company like nvidia would bless us lowly linux guys with support for their world-class graphics hardware....but then I see a company like ATI/AMD close the gap (and surpass, in some cases) them in a few years time and can't help but feel a little disenchanted.

                      but that's just full disclosure in my part, and not the point i'm trying to make...all i mean to say is that for some users, like me, ati has the better package now, and statements like "I KNOW that they're BETTER than ATI's" are (as I'm sure you'd agree) false, because I've certainly given Nvidia a fair amount of time and money and understanding yet in the end I have a better experience with ATI.
                      That opinion was fairly reasonable to hold but thankfully for the Linux comunity that's starting to change. I actually like ATI's hardware and want to buy one of their cards myself and cant wait for fglrx to reach full maturity which by all accounts is probably not that far off.

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