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  • #21
    Originally posted by Qaridarium
    i tell you the time-point they release the specs of the UVD unit....
    if someone crack/reverse-engineering the windows HDCP/Copy-protection.
    and that on all hardwares,,, intel,nvidia,amd..
    after that there is no need for hold the stuff back in the dark,,,
    Bah, they still use CSS for DVDs even though it's broken in every way possible. AnyDVD HD has in practice broken the bluray copy protection but it doesn't matter one bit, no matter what happens AMD won't be released from their commitments.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by bridgman View Post
      Nope, the licensing issue is for open source, not for fglrx. The question is whether the combination of our hardware, specs we release, and an open source driver would be covered by our license.

      This is in addition to the DRM concerns we knew about at the start; just something that came up when I was starting to rough out a plan.

      I can't really speculate on what the available options would be if we couldn't open up UVD, since the available options would depend on which specific problem or problems blocked us. Linux doesn't have the same kind of protected runtime environment as Windows, so releasing a closed source module would basically be the same as jumping up and down yelling "this bit, this bit, reverse-engineer this bit"
      Just make sure you don't wait for too long, before somebody loses patience and reverse-engineers it anyway.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Qaridarium
        but the blueray standart can blacklist ALL i remember ALL softwares and ALL hardware players...

        so you need to buy new hardware players and software.
        Sure if you kill BluRay you kill AnyDVD HD. In the real world, that doesn't make any sense.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Kjella View Post
          Bah, they still use CSS for DVDs even though it's broken in every way possible. AnyDVD HD has in practice broken the bluray copy protection but it doesn't matter one bit, no matter what happens AMD won't be released from their commitments.
          The only reason this nonsense holds up is because of that DMCA nonsense.

          But the fact is that they could use a really stupid kind of encryption, like a binary inversion, and it would STILL be illegal to decrypt under the DMCA.

          The way I view encryption/security is like this;

          IF YOU TAKE security precautions, i.e. ENCRYPTION, then YOU assume all responsibility for the security of that data.

          If you DO NOT take security precautions, then AND ONLY then should law/copyright apply.

          In other words, it is an ABOMINATION of everything that makes sense that the LAW should have any say in whether or not you are allowed to hack stuff that is designed to be secure. People should REALLY take responsibility for their own data.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by Qaridarium
            nah anydvd only copy the key out from a programm ...

            but the blueray standart can blacklist ALL i remember ALL softwares and ALL hardware players...

            so you need to buy new hardware players and software.

            after that anydvd needs to crack the blueray again and again and again.
            This really needs to be answered...

            So they can blacklist the hardware players, big deal. Has anyone actually considered the PR fallout of doing so? Just imagine the headlines. It would mostly kill the format.

            And this is where any such scheme falls apart. The ability to blacklist sounds great in theory, but would be a disaster for all involved if ever actually used, so is basically irrelevant - it's MAD for all parties, no matter what the law courts actually decide.

            Note: This overlooks the almost comical potential for nasties... In the PC market, I can now legally turn every video card into a doorstop by publically reporting a leak of protected content, and demanding MS carry out the driver revocation... In the immortal words of Monty Python: "It's depressing, and it's senseless, and that's why..."

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Qaridarium
              "And keep in mind, that it's the geeks who are asked for advice by normal consumers on what to buy."

              real Geeks support opensource and asked to the stubit people around they sould buy amd cards!

              and yes KANO isn't a geek he is a Nerd!,,,

              Nerd= do not support Social activities only the working solution for himself is the only argument standpoint..
              I'm sorry, but we were having a completely sane discussion here, without any personal attacks, until you came along. I mean: where are the moderators?

              Originally posted by RobbieAB View Post
              This really needs to be answered...

              So they can blacklist the hardware players, big deal. Has anyone actually considered the PR fallout of doing so? Just imagine the headlines. It would mostly kill the format.

              And this is where any such scheme falls apart. The ability to blacklist sounds great in theory, but would be a disaster for all involved if ever actually used, so is basically irrelevant - it's MAD for all parties, no matter what the law courts actually decide.

              Note: This overlooks the almost comical potential for nasties... In the PC market, I can now legally turn every video card into a doorstop by publically reporting a leak of protected content, and demanding MS carry out the driver revocation... In the immortal words of Monty Python: "It's depressing, and it's senseless, and that's why..."
              I guess that this is where calculations come in. Is it better to risk the outcry of the users or risk huge fines?
              It does rise a particular question, to which I don't know the answer since I'm not a lawyer in the US corporate-law-funnyland: Let's say a consumer bought a Bluray player/HDCP card and bought it sole purpose of playing Blueray disks. After that keys in his device get revoked, because someone recovered them and published. This would render his device, for which he paid quite a lot of money, incapable of playing new Blueray disks. In other words: revoking the keys would break his property... Wouldn't he be eligible to sue someone? Wouldn't this spawn massive class-action suits?

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Neuro View Post
                I guess that this is where calculations come in. Is it better to risk the outcry of the users or risk huge fines?
                It does rise a particular question, to which I don't know the answer since I'm not a lawyer in the US corporate-law-funnyland: Let's say a consumer bought a Bluray player/HDCP card and bought it sole purpose of playing Blueray disks. After that keys in his device get revoked, because someone recovered them and published. This would render his device, for which he paid quite a lot of money, incapable of playing new Blueray disks. In other words: revoking the keys would break his property... Wouldn't he be eligible to sue someone? Wouldn't this spawn massive class-action suits?
                I'm not a lawyer either, but... I damn sure wish I was when THAT one happens!

                The problem for those advocating such solutions is no matter which way the courts rule, the PR damage is going to be devastating if it's ever used, and they have handed an attacker a target that is unarguably legal to devastate a LOT of people. Think of the fun a virus writer could have...

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                • #28
                  There is some sneakyness to this problem...
                  The thing isn't going to outright say that your keys are revoked. It just isn't going to work. So if they revoke the keys while the device is under warranty, then they replace the thing under warranty (as if it were defective). If it is out of warranty, then you need to reverse engineer it in order to PROVE the reason why it stops working.

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                  • #29
                    Good luck explaining that one to the worlds media: All the devices just "stopped working" at the same time? They will want to come clean as otherwise the damage is even worse. Having a reputation for shipping shoddy equipment is commercial suicide, and in it's "just failed", over here consumers are legally entitled to a refund. No matter how it played out, a major key revocation is going to inflict serious damage on all involved.

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                    • #30
                      I just saw the Radeon feature matrix:


                      It appearst that:
                      "Video Decode (XvMC/VDPAU/VA-API) using UVD" became TODO. Does that mean that someone gave a green light to UVD or is this just wishfull thinking?

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