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R600 Open-Source Driver WIth GLSL, OpenGL 2.0

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  • Originally posted by Qaridarium
    The king himself Lord Bridgman gave me a tiny chance that is the truth.

    the tiny point is there is a real chance that in CAD software gamer-cards run faster in directX than on openGL.
    YOU stated that CAD software ran faster in DX on gamer cards than in GL, and stated it as a fact. I didn't have any information to prove or disprove it so said it was "possible", based on your prior statement. If you don't have any justification for that statement, you can't use my response as justification either.

    Originally posted by Qaridarium
    thats because in the openGL world they have more control they cut out more extensions and then this features need to emulate by the cpu thats slowdown the OpenGl CAD software on a gamer card.

    on the directX side M$ can bypass this and integrate optimizations in the dx-core
    One more time, we don't cut out extensions on the gaming drivers. The workload is different between workstation and gamer applications (workstation tends to be much more vertex-intensive, gaming tends to be fragment/pixel-intensive) and we optimize differently for those workloads. More specifically, if an optimization improves the way a workstation application runs but slows down or interferes with a game then there's no way that change could make it into the regular drivers but it *would* go into the workstation drivers.

    The other appeal of the workstation drivers is that the hardware/software combination is ISV-certified on a range of workstation applications, which is usually not possible for regular drivers.

    Originally posted by Qaridarium
    but yes i can not proof this in practice!
    With respect, if you can't prove it in theory *or* in practice then you don't have a very strong argument. You really would be better off presenting it as a theory or a possibility, with a chance that someone else might provide additional information, than presenting it as a statement of fact and having people throw feces at you.
    Last edited by bridgman; 30 December 2009, 11:46 AM.

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    • Keep up the great work, bridgman.
      Not enough appreciation going on around here.

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      • Thanks, although the appreciation should keep going to the hands-on developers.

        I'm just here trying to prevent Crimes against Logic

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        • Right, on behalf of the developers *cough*.

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          • I knew that

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            • Originally posted by Qaridarium
              i know that.... but the openGL renderer of wow is obsolete...

              wine can handle the directX9 renderer of WOW nerly perfekt 100%?..

              no one need this buggy pbuffer openGL-windows-only-extansion
              Maybe your logic should be reprogrammed. Since when are pbuffers are WINDOWS only?

              http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...&postcount=174

              Just the mesa drivers do not implement it would be the correct translation. Hopefully you get a brain update next year.

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              • Very unlikely, especially when the next google toy will use tegra just like zune hd. The dx11 delay will not kill nvidia, more like is that they would aquire a x86 licence and produce own chips for netbook market.

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                • This thread is starting to read a bit too much like timecube.com ...

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                  • Originally posted by Qaridarium
                    nvidia do not need a X86 licence because they buy 'transmeta' this technic can handle X86 code without any licence from intel.
                    If and only if they're using the actual Transmeta technology as originally conceived... which turned out to be crap and flopped horribly. But hey, that MUST be what they're doing, because they bought the company and there's no other possible assets Transmeta could have had, right? Companies exist to make one and only one intellectual property.

                    You are still an idiot.

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                    • Sigh. I hesitate to continue this thread, but here I go anyway.

                      Originally posted by Qaridarium
                      thats a WOW only statement !
                      because WOW really use a windows-only-openGL-extansion Really!
                      you can't see the minimap if you play WOW in OpenGLmode in wine.
                      but the _DirectX version rund perfect in wine!
                      No, pbuffers have nothing to do with windows. They're only implemented by the proprietary drivers, but there is no reason the OSS ones couldn't do so as well.

                      Originally posted by Qaridarium
                      in general native games in openGL are better ;-)
                      Oh, OK. I guess I misunderstood your previous post. As others have mentioned, that's an easy thing to do with your posts.


                      Originally posted by Qaridarium
                      The king himself Lord Bridgman gave me a tiny chance that is the truth.

                      the tiny point is there is a real chance that in CAD software gamer-cards run faster in directX than on openGL.

                      thats because in the openGL world they have more control they cut out more extensions and then this features need to emulate by the cpu thats slowdown the OpenGl CAD software on a gamer card.

                      on the directX side M$ can bypass this and integrate optimizations in the dx-core

                      but yes i can not proof this in practice!
                      Come on, do you have any evidence at all to back up this assertion? The speedup the FirePro drivers give is due to focusing driver optimizations on certain types of workloads, not on missing extensions or anything. Unless you can provide some kind of evidence for this, I say you're full of bull**** here.


                      Originally posted by Qaridarium
                      blackstar ignors my argument wine is a shader compiler and also can optimase the orginal code on newer hardware.

                      you can play a DX8 game (yes DX8 is shader based HLSL) and wine can compile it into a OpenGL4 stylish code. there is no need to do this all the time wine also can save the result in theorie.

                      and my argument was simple a recompiled OpenGL stylish code on newest hardware is faster than a DX8 nativ code on the same hardware!
                      Ah, so what you're saying is that rewriting the original code on the fly to take advantage of new features can result in speedups on newer hardware. Sure, I'll agree with that in principle. The problem is that it's only going to happen on older software that can't take advantage of new hardware - and those applications are going to run smokin fast on the newer hardware anyway, so there's not much point to speeding them up. Current applications which run at slower speeds on current hardware tend to already be using more of the hardware's capabilities and will not see any speedup at all. In fact, they'll be slower because of the additional translations that have to go on up front.

                      Originally posted by Qaridarium
                      o yes Nintendo's Wii is very old no no no no highendgrafic everywere!

                      o yes Playstation 3 is old to no no no no no no highend-graphic nowere!
                      Well, they're a lot newer than some of the examples you gave, like 3DMark2000.

                      Originally posted by Qaridarium
                      OpenGL2.1 grafic! nothing more.

                      phones do only have openGL2 to....

                      the web browser standarts only have openGL2 to!

                      Highend-graphic OpenGL is dieing! over 4 years of DirectX10 there is no openGL3 game!
                      Right, but that's something you could have said 5 years ago and it would have been just as true. High end OpenGL has been dying for a long time, so I'm not sure why you think it's going to go away soon. Hasn't it been dead for the last 4 years, since like you said there is no OpenGL3 game yet? Or else it's not dead at all, since the lower end use is exploding.

                      Originally posted by Qaridarium
                      in the end the windows users use rivatuner to turn a radeon into a fireGL...

                      in the end everyone how buys a FirePRO/FireGL are a idiot!
                      Well, now here's something we might agree on. At least in the past, there has been no actual difference in the hardware between the gamer and professional cards, it's all a matter of driver optimizations. So you are spending an awful lot of money here for some software you could get via a hack.

                      On the other hand, I'm not sure I'd really want to bet my job on a hack like that, and I'm sure a lot of other people would agree. I don't think there are many users getting those expensive cards using their personal money.
                      Last edited by smitty3268; 31 December 2009, 04:43 AM.

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