ZLUDA Takes On Third Life: Open-Source Multi-GPU CUDA Implementation Focused On AI

[stormcrow]

It's not that simple. While it might be legal in his home country, it won't stop the project being legally challenged elsewhere, potentially effectively ending its development from anything from copyright to software patent challenges. This kind of thing has become the minefield corporations intended to happen even if they're as at risk as individuals. Just that individuals usually have less resources to fight them. Successful legal challenge consequences can range from take downs on popular code hubs, to banning the contributors from entry or crossing, to arrest.

[ssokolow]

This kind of thing has become the minefield corporations intended to happen even if they're as at risk as individuals. Just that individuals usually have less resources to fight them. Successful legal challenge consequences can range from take downs on popular code hubs, to banning the contributors from entry or crossing, to arrest.

I'm reminded of a saying I first heard when I learned of Apple and "design patents"... "If you can't compete, litigate."

[kurkosdr]

Finally, algorithms can't be copyrighted.

Algorithms can be copyrighted in all of the EU, what you probably meant is that algorithms can't be patented (or more precisely, France doesn't enforce software patents).

EDIT: Some other countries also don't enforce software patents.

[ssokolow]

Algorithms can be copyrighted in all of the EU, what you probably meant is that algorithms can't be patented (or more precisely, France doesn't enforce software patents).

Citation on that? That sounds insane. It's like a fiction author getting a patent on a character archetype.

[kurkosdr]

With Nintendo destroying their emulators left and right, I don't see a bright future for this project unless NVIDIA officially confirms that they're not opposed to its existence.

AFAIK they have changed the CUDA licence agreement to not allow such projects. Anyways, as long as the principle developer is being paid for this work, I guess it's ... fine? As long as NVIDIA doesn't sue the living crap out of him.

Nintendo can't "destroy" something just because they don't like it, the way they get some emulators is because they provide decryption capabilities, which is a legally grey area because of the DMCA's "anti-circumvention provisions" in the US (Suyu which is in Brazil is fine).

Similarly, Nvidia can't "destroy" something ZLUDA because they don't like it, they have to find a law ZLUDA violates in the country the project is hosted in.

[kurkosdr]

Citation on that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_law_of_the_European_Union

Software is copyrightable in the EU, which means you can't distribute copies of algorithms or source code verbatim without permission, what you can't do in some EU countries is enforce software patents (patents are a different thing from copyright). So, it's possible to reverse-engineer software in some EU countries without fear of software patent lawsuits, but you can't copy software or its source code verbatim.

For example, the ZLUDA guy can't copy verbatim any parts of the source code of Nvidia's proprietary drivers, even if he somehow stumbles upon such source-code, ZLUDA is exclusively reverse-engineered code.

That sounds insane. It's like a fiction author getting a patent on a character archetype.

The fact that what you are describing is the hypothetical process of patenting a character archetype, but what you are talking about is copyright, hints to me that you have misread something, but I won't go on the basics of copyright law and patent law here (for example how a copyrighted work differs from a patent).

[Teggs]

Maybe the backer is Tiny Corp.

[Michael]

Maybe the backer is Tiny Corp.

Highly unlikely, they tend to be much more public/transparent in their statements and interests.

[intelfx]

Algorithms can be copyrighted in all of the EU

Since when? Copyright protects the expression, not the idea, and abstract algorithms (as opposed to actual programs) are ideas, not expressions. This is more or less the fundamental concept of copyright, I expect this to be true in every country that ratified the Berne convention.

Now patents do protect the idea, but you said it yourself that software patents are unenforceable in (at least some parts of) the EU.

[AdrianBc]

Algorithms can be copyrighted in all of the EU, what you probably meant is that algorithms can't be patented (or more precisely, France doesn't enforce software patents).

EDIT: Some other countries also don't enforce software patents.

Algorithms cannot be copyrighted anywhere on Earth, because copyright cannot protect algorithms.

Copyright is applicable only to a certain implementation of an algorithm, written in some programming language, which cannot be copied and reused when the copyright owner forbids this.

Any different reimplementation of the algorithm is outside the scope of copyright laws, as long as it can be proven that the implementations are indeed different (but some parts of different implementations may be quite similar, if it can be proven that there are no alternative ways to write those parts, so they are written like that by necessity, not by choice).

Following the bad example of USA, now there are countries where algorithms are patentable, even if at their origins all patent laws had explicitly forbidden the patents on algorithms.

The only way to prevent other people to use an algorithm is to patent it, when in a country that allows this.