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  • #41
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    We've been down this road before (I mean specifically with Intel's upcoming dGPUs) and it seems there's no convincing him. Luckily, we have only another 2 months or so to wait.
    right i am not convinced because the existing PCIe cards are made in a way that they only run with intel cpus...

    also also by logic if intel do not follow this OEM only stradegy to push their chipset sales and cpu sales with cheap GPUs then they will lose many Xeon sales beause the people get ECC without buying Xeon.

    so by logic they make it an OEM product only and make it only run with intel cpus or else they will hurt themself.

    and for sure they will not do this.
    Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

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    • #42
      Originally posted by qarium View Post
      right i am not convinced because the existing PCIe cards are made in a way that they only run with intel cpus...
      The existing cards are basically existing integrated GPUs with quick hacks to allow them to run over PCIe. They are nothing more than test hardware which has nothing to do with the actual plans Intel has.

      also also by logic if intel do not follow this OEM only stradegy to push their chipset sales and cpu sales with cheap GPUs then they will lose many Xeon sales beause the people get ECC without buying Xeon.
      Huh? What does Xeon or ECC memory have to do with consumer graphics cards?

      so by logic they make it an OEM product only and make it only run with intel cpus or else they will hurt themself.

      and for sure they will not do this.
      Hate to break it to you, but the intel graphics cards will not be OEM only or restricted to Intel cpu's. Doesn't matter how many conspiracy theories you spout. Heck, in the past they've added an integrated AMD gpu onto Intel CPUs, and you think they're not going to create a standard discrete card? That's crazy talk.

      This has all been publicly confirmed by Intel. If they backtrack at this point, they'd likely be subject to lawsuits from their investors for being lied to.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
        The existing cards are basically existing integrated GPUs with quick hacks to allow them to run over PCIe. They are nothing more than test hardware which has nothing to do with the actual plans Intel has.
        Huh? What does Xeon or ECC memory have to do with consumer graphics cards?
        Hate to break it to you, but the intel graphics cards will not be OEM only or restricted to Intel cpu's. Doesn't matter how many conspiracy theories you spout. Heck, in the past they've added an integrated AMD gpu onto Intel CPUs, and you think they're not going to create a standard discrete card? That's crazy talk.
        This has all been publicly confirmed by Intel. If they backtrack at this point, they'd likely be subject to lawsuits from their investors for being lied to.
        if they limit their gpus to intel cpus they can control who get ECC and who does not get ECC
        this means if you want ECC then you have to buy Xeon cpu.

        if they make their GPUs run with AMD cpus then the people just buy an Ryzen 5800X3D and put in ECC ram.
        this no more chipset sales for intel and no more Xeon sales for intel.

        if they do as you said... well in this case we will see a massive price drop in the market for the hardware.

        no one needs an expensive intel motherboard chipset anymore they just buy a cheap AM4 mother board with 5800X3D

        no one need expensive Xeon cpu anymore they get ECC ram with the AMD CPU.

        so you see i hope you are right but in this case intel just shot in their own food.

        but instead of they do the "restricted to Intel cpu's" game then they can control the market.

        Phantom circuit Sequence Reducer Dyslexia

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by qarium View Post

          if they limit their gpus to intel cpus they can control who get ECC and who does not get ECC
          this means if you want ECC then you have to buy Xeon cpu.

          if they make their GPUs run with AMD cpus then the people just buy an Ryzen 5800X3D and put in ECC ram.
          this no more chipset sales for intel and no more Xeon sales for intel.

          if they do as you said... well in this case we will see a massive price drop in the market for the hardware.

          no one needs an expensive intel motherboard chipset anymore they just buy a cheap AM4 mother board with 5800X3D

          no one need expensive Xeon cpu anymore they get ECC ram with the AMD CPU.

          so you see i hope you are right but in this case intel just shot in their own food.

          but instead of they do the "restricted to Intel cpu's" game then they can control the market.
          WHAT. THE. F....

          Ok, seriously. I don't think it's worth responding to this any further, because your brain clearly works differently than mine does.

          But for the record, a $300 consumer graphics card isn't going to determine whether people buy Xeon servers. It doesn't even exist yet. By that logic, nobody would be buying Xeon servers now.

          Comment


          • #45
            The normal course of action, in a free market economy, in the case of a severe shortage is to [temporarily] increase the product's price on the manufacturer's and designer's side in order to decrease the demand and allocate more resources on the supply side. It is unfortunate that AMD&NVIDIA aren't behaving according to this simple principle, and instead are announcing new products at prices that do not reflect/match the market prices of those products. Competition in a free market usually ensures that the surplus money collected by the manufacturer/designer is at least partially used to finance development of new features in upcoming products. At the right pricing, there would be no shortage of GPUs in e-shops nor in classic retail shops. A question is whether buyers want to keep paying surplus to scalpers - or instead want to pay the same surplus to GPU manufacturers and designers.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by atomsymbol View Post
              The normal course of action, in a free market economy, in the case of a severe shortage is to [temporarily] increase the product's price on the manufacturer's and designer's side in order to decrease the demand and allocate more resources on the supply side. It is unfortunate that AMD&NVIDIA aren't behaving according to this simple principle,
              It takes something like 5 years to build a new semiconductor fab. Lots and lots of new fab capacity has been announced, in the past couple of years. Unfortunately, there's only so much you can rush the process. You can't get 9 women to collaboratively make a baby in 1 month.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by coder View Post
                It takes something like 5 years to build a new semiconductor fab. Lots and lots of new fab capacity has been announced, in the past couple of years. Unfortunately, there's only so much you can rush the process. You can't get 9 women to collaboratively make a baby in 1 month.
                Just some notes/scenarios:
                • New fabs most likely aren't going to solve the issue of surplus money going to scalpers, instead of the surplus going to GPU designers and manufacturers
                • If today a cryptocurrency mining facility buys 100 GPUs then new fabs will enable the mining facility to buy 1000 GPUs, and consequently there will remain to be a shortage of GPUs in eshops
                • If the GPU crypto market collapses after Ethereum switches to proof-of-stake then there will be a very large number of GPUs on the market, and consequently the new fabs will be running below their peak manufacturing capacity

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by atomsymbol View Post
                  Just some notes/scenarios:
                  • New fabs most likely aren't going to solve the issue of surplus money going to scalpers, instead of the surplus going to GPU designers and manufacturers
                  • If today a cryptocurrency mining facility buys 100 GPUs then new fabs will enable the mining facility to buy 1000 GPUs, and consequently there will remain to be a shortage of GPUs in eshops
                  • If the GPU crypto market collapses after Ethereum switches to proof-of-stake then there will be a very large number of GPUs on the market, and consequently the new fabs will be running below their peak manufacturing capacity
                  Scalpers will stop making money when supply reaches a point where they can no longer absorb all of it. Then, they have to sell what they bought at a loss, which causes them to stop doing it.

                  Cypto-mining is fundamentally limited by power costs, among other things. Again, you can face a supply/demand problem, where so many miners flock to an area with cheap electricity that the cost/W eventually has to rise or governments have to crack down on miners.

                  As for there being a glut of fab capacity, I think that's what held back semiconductor manufacturers from ramping up even faster, in prior years. They have long memories and the semiconductor business is typically cyclical.

                  Probably the other wildcard was China, though some US embargoes on semiconductor technology seem to have slowed their ramp-up. But everyone knows you're not going to win a price war with China, due to their government support for the sector.

                  However, it could be that we're in the middle of an expansion big enough to absorb those factors. We'll see...

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