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AMD RDNA2 Vulkan: RADV vs. RADV+NGGC vs. AMDVLK vs. PRO Driver Benchmarks

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  • #51
    Originally posted by avem View Post
    I cannot disagree with this but in my experience a vanishingly small number of "power users" actually have enough zeal and time to report and bisect major regressions. The Linux kernel architecture is not conducive to bisecting either because you cannot load and unload graphics drivers on the fly. Each bisect, go reboot. That's extremely tiresome.
    The unloading part is wrong, you can detach radeon/amdgpu from fbcon and then unload the kernel module.

    When it comes to involving your users in identifying and fixing problems, it matters how easy you make it. From Gentoo (where packages are bash scripts that anyone can easily see or edit on their system) I know that bug reports often come with patches attached. Contrast with Debian/Fedora/etc. where editing packages is several steps removed from ordinary users, and typically only the developers will do the bug fixing.

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    • #52
      Originally posted by chithanh View Post
      The unloading part is wrong, you can detach radeon/amdgpu from fbcon and then unload the kernel module.

      When it comes to involving your users in identifying and fixing problems, it matters how easy you make it. From Gentoo (where packages are bash scripts that anyone can easily see or edit on their system) I know that bug reports often come with patches attached. Contrast with Debian/Fedora/etc. where editing packages is several steps removed from ordinary users, and typically only the developers will do the bug fixing.
      No you cannot. KMS drivers in use cannot be unloaded unless you kill Xorg, and run some commands which makes debugging a huge hassle. In Windows - any time of the week. And then there are huge caveats like the system could be left in a broken state, so you'll need SSH to restore it: https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/KernelModeSetting.html

      I'm sure the number of patches for i915, amdgpu and nouveau from Gentoo users is fewer than 5. So much for Gentoo users being special.
      Last edited by avem; 18 August 2021, 06:33 PM.

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      • #53
        Originally posted by avem View Post
        KMS drivers in use cannot be unloaded unless you kill Xorg, and run some commands which makes debugging a huge hassle. In Windows - any time of the week.
        no, you can't unload kms drivers on windows at all

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        • #54
          Was messing around with the PRO drivers, but it seems they had issues with dx12 and rt in games. I did manage to get The Ascent loaded up with RT once but the PRO drivers caused crashing or artifacts.

          I look forward to when we can say, DX12 with RT works pretty flawless with proton and RADV or PRO but it seems we are still a fair way way. (correct me if I'm wrong)

          I just wanted to test RT performance with PRO which its meant to support. (obviously not very well)

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          • #55
            Originally posted by avem View Post
            Each bisect, go reboot.
            Originally posted by avem View Post
            No you cannot. KMS drivers in use cannot be unloaded unless you kill Xorg
            Moving the goalposts, are we? First it was "reboot", now it is "kill Xorg". And stopping X server and detaching from fbcon is precisely what makes the KMS driver to be "no longer in use" so you can unload the kernel module.

            Originally posted by avem View Post
            , and run some commands which makes debugging a huge hassle. In Windows - any time of the week. And then there are huge caveats like the system could be left in a broken state, so you'll need SSH to restore it: https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/KernelModeSetting.html
            Indeed if you are debugging graphics drivers, you should first ensure that you are able to access and use the system without the GUI. If you have an Android smartphone, just install Termux or similar, so you don't even need a second desktop PC to access via SSH and run the detach/restore commands.

            Originally posted by avem View Post
            I'm sure the number of patches for i915, amdgpu and nouveau from Gentoo users is fewer than 5. So much for Gentoo users being special.
            I am talking about user-submitted patches to Gentoo ebuilds vs. patches to Fedora rpm and Debian dpkg packages.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by pal666 View Post
              no, you can't unload kms drivers on windows at all
              That's a plain lie. You can go to the Device Manager and delete your graphics adapter and find yourself in software mode (probably VESA). You're known to lie about both open and closed source software all the time, so I'm not surprised.

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              • #57
                Originally posted by chithanh View Post
                Moving the goalposts, are we? First it was "reboot", now it is "kill Xorg". And stopping X server and detaching from fbcon is precisely what makes the KMS driver to be "no longer in use" so you can unload the kernel module.

                Indeed if you are debugging graphics drivers, you should first ensure that you are able to access and use the system without the GUI. If you have an Android smartphone, just install Termux or similar, so you don't even need a second desktop PC to access via SSH and run the detach/restore commands.

                I am talking about user-submitted patches to Gentoo ebuilds vs. patches to Fedora rpm and Debian dpkg packages.
                I'm not moving anything. Reloading graphics drivers in Windows is a breeze. Your applications continue running. In Linux you basically have to completely restart each time you want to reload them. If anything it's you who's moving goalposts.

                Ebuilds patches? Are you serious? Who cares about patches for the build system??

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by avem View Post
                  I'm not moving anything. Reloading graphics drivers in Windows is a breeze. Your applications continue running. In Linux you basically have to completely restart each time you want to reload them. If anything it's you who's moving goalposts.
                  You are not only moving goalposts, you seem to be unaware of how applications can survive X.org restart (some Google terms: Xpra, xmove).

                  Contrary to what you claim or imply, it is not necessary at all to restart your system, or any application, when unloading the graphics driver kernel module.

                  Originally posted by avem View Post
                  Ebuilds patches? Are you serious? Who cares about patches for the build system??
                  Lots of times, software has bugs that can be patched or worked around in the build system. Integrating such changes is very easy in Gentoo (also Nix/GUIX and other source based distros), simply copy/edit a text file. It is slightly more involved in Arch, and it is a pain in Debian, Fedora, etc.

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