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AMD RDNA2 Vulkan: RADV vs. RADV+NGGC vs. AMDVLK vs. PRO Driver Benchmarks

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Masush5 View Post

    They need massive improvements in certain cases though. For example, Death Stranding compiles all it's shaders on the first loading screen, which finishes in about 2-3 minutes on RADV and amdgpu-pro, but takes more than 20 minutes on AMDVLK (!).
    Coincidentally I tried out Death Stranding just yesterday as my very first VKD3D-Proton using title on my HTPC (i5-6500 + 1650), and with default settings, I seriously thought for the first few seconds where the landscapes are shown that this had to be a pre-rendered video, because it really did look that unbelievably good!
    The Decima engine out of the Netherlands is truly a technical marvel!

    And the first loading screen really did take only a few minutes here aswell, with the subsequent performance then being flawless ingame.

    It's just too bad that AMD still has nothing to offer that could counter nVidia's 1650 in the 75 Watts GPU space; hopefully at least Intel will fill this void next year...

    Also, for the ill-informed naysayers without first hand experience for themselves:
    There is no tearing with the binary blob on X11 either, so stop spouting FUD, please!

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    • #42
      Originally posted by Linuxxx View Post
      Also, for the ill-informed naysayers without first hand experience for themselves:
      There is no tearing with the binary blob on X11 either, so stop spouting FUD, please!
      I don't know what DE or WM you use, but I get some tearing with Nvidia blob, most notably when playing videos fullscreen.
      On Wayland, I don't get tearing but I can't disable VSync in-game, so that's a problem too.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by omer666 View Post
        I don't know what DE or WM you use, but I get some tearing with Nvidia blob, most notably when playing videos fullscreen.
        On Wayland, I don't get tearing but I can't disable VSync in-game, so that's a problem too.
        I have used a variety of DEs & WMs over the years on nVidia GPUs and actually can't remember the last time I saw any tearing.
        On my HTPC I'm running Xubuntu 20.04 LTS with Xfce 4.14 right now, with its own default compositor active while the option for fullscreen windows to be shown directly also being activated.

        As for fullscreen videos:
        No tearing with a default Firefox setup & naturally no tearing with mpv either.

        And as long as it's not a totally broken implementation, I usually keep Vsync activated in games, since it can actually help with frame-pacing, though of course there are exceptions to this rule.

        About Wayland:
        AFAIK, sticking to X11 for gaming is still the most viable option in 2021, even with Mesa drivers.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by nadro View Post
          Hello,
          Today I received my RX 6600 XT and I see some problems with video output during desktop environment start (I have to wait 10+ seconds until my monitor is able to detect video signal). With RX 580 I didn't notice similar issues. I use Ubuntu 21.04 + linux-firmware from git, mesa 21.2 from Kisak PPA + kernel 5.14rc6/5.13.11 from Ubuntu PPA. Someone noticed similar issues?
          Cheers,
          My issue was related to this bug:

          I removed problematic sensor module from /etc/modules and all works fine now.
          BTW. I added this reply to my own question, because it may be helpful for someone in future.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by bridgman View Post

            I have to disagree with you here. I see a whole class of what you might call "power users" who benefit from having access to source code and commit history, either from being able to bisect to determine exactly where a regression problem on their system occurred, or from being able to work directly with a developer to "try this patch".

            In both cases having open source effectively allows a degree of personalized support that has not been practical with closed-source code, making it possible for developers to quickly identify and fix problems that only appear on specific user systems.
            I cannot disagree with this but in my experience a vanishingly small number of "power users" actually have enough zeal and time to report and bisect major regressions. The Linux kernel architecture is not conducive to bisecting either because you cannot load and unload graphics drivers on the fly. Each bisect, go reboot. That's extremely tiresome.

            And then it's quite horrible that end users actually have to do QA/QC work for companies. It means open source software is not properly developed/funded in the first place. Regressions do happens with proprietary software either but they are a lot less frequent and normally affect a very small number of users.

            Originally posted by bridgman View Post
            If by "lately" you mean "in the last 30 years" then I guess I agree, although not completely even in that case.

            I don't think there have ever been a lot of cases where developers working in their spare time were able to start and maintain large projects - it can be done but it's very rough on the developer(s) - but what independent developers have done and continue to do is get projects through the "proof of concept" stage to the point where it makes sense for one or more companies to have their developers help with some of the heavy lifting.

            It's also worth noting that a lot of the "company developers" working on a project used to be independent developers until they were hired by a company to continue working on the project with more time than they could devote working just as a hobby.
            True so but the point stands: the parts of the open source stack with no major corporation backing are severely lacking.
            Last edited by avem; 18 August 2021, 02:24 AM.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by avem View Post

              In other words it's not "community" in any shape or form which means the whole idea of community driven GPU development is more likely a myth.
              Poor Valve, why wouldn't it qualify as community?
              Do you have something against Valve or your concept of community is flawed?
              ## VGA ##
              AMD: X1950XTX, HD3870, HD5870
              Intel: GMA45, HD3000 (Core i5 2500K)

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              • #47
                Originally posted by avem View Post
                Open Source Community means people coding (not working) in spare time for fun. Paid developers are paid developers. Funny how the terms have slowly been subverted. Subway workers doing kernel development? I'm not sure I get this lame attempt of a joke.
                I started working on Mesa as a hobby, because I was interested and enjoyed working on it. Do you believe I should stop enjoying it, just because I'm paid for it now? Did I stop being a member of the community in your opinion?

                Originally posted by avem View Post
                And not programmers? No way on Earth you're skilled enough to contribute.
                There are many ways to contribute, other than writing code. There are a good bunch of people who help development by doing game benchmarks, and/or create quality bug reports for the developers. This is very valuable, and I'm very grateful to everyone who helps us this way.

                Originally posted by avem View Post
                All I'm trying to say is that open source drivers vs closed source drivers means nada for the average Linux user since only a handful of people can actually fix issues in drivers and they do it only when a particular issue is critical enough. Go check i915/radeon bug trackers - hundreds of open issues and no one paying any attention to them since they are not widespread enough.
                If you're interested to hear about why open drivers are beneficial, here are a few thoughts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF-xHTKY4H4 which has many good points about how an open driver can be helpful, from the perspective of game developers, HW vendors and platform vendors. If you are a gamer, this benefits you indirectly, even if you don't hack on the driver yourself.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by avem View Post

                  In other words it's not "community" in any shape or form which means the whole idea of community driven GPU development is more likely a myth.
                  Your definition of community is wrong. A FOSS community does not imply a community of unpaid volunteers. The idea is that everybody can chip in. RADV began as a hobby project of David Airlie (at least I think it was David). Zink was a hobby project of Mike Blumenkranz before Valve contracted him to work on it full time. If this is not the community spearheading important and impactful software projects, I don't know what is. Just because these projects later receive commercial backing to ensure further development doesn't change a thing.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by MadCatX View Post

                    Your definition of community is wrong. A FOSS community does not imply a community of unpaid volunteers. The idea is that everybody can chip in. RADV began as a hobby project of David Airlie (at least I think it was David). Zink was a hobby project of Mike Blumenkranz before Valve contracted him to work on it full time. If this is not the community spearheading important and impactful software projects, I don't know what is. Just because these projects later receive commercial backing to ensure further development doesn't change a thing.
                    It changes everything because it's no longer the individuals who run and dictate their development, it's private corporations which do it to extract profits. Does anyone here really believe Valve cares one bit about Linux and open source in general? OMG.

                    It's funny how 20 years ago corporations touching Linux were scoffed at and ridiculed, nowadays they've suddenly become "part of community". I guess open source fans do not care who and how develops Open Source software as long as it's "open".

                    We've seen quite a lot of examples where "open" suddenly becomes not so open, e.g. MySQL, MongoDB, etc. etc. etc. and all the resentment which followed.
                    Last edited by avem; 18 August 2021, 09:19 AM.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by avem View Post

                      It changes everything because it's no longer the individuals who run and dictate their development, it's private corporations which do it to extract profits.
                      The primary purpose of a company is to make money. If a company invests serious resources into something, it's not unreasonable to expect them to get something out of it.

                      Originally posted by avem View Post
                      Does anyone here really believe Valve cares one bit about Linux and open source in general? OMG.
                      What is your definition of "caring about FOSS" and why does it matter? Valve Corporation is merely a legal entity and as such cannot "care" about anything. People paid by Valve to work on the graphics stack, however, can and probably do care a great deal about preserving the FOSS spirit of the projects they work on.

                      Note that instead of taking the easy way of forking the relevant code, hiring a bunch of sweatshop coders and controlling the development with an iron fist Valve decided to go with people who started as FOSS enthusiasts. This indicates that they either do care a bit about FOSS even at the corporate level or that they realized that it is better to fight alongside the FOSS community rather than against it.

                      Originally posted by avem View Post
                      It's funny how 20 years ago corporations touching Linux were scoffed at and ridiculed,
                      Would those be corporations with malicious intents that got picked up on and those corporations were rightfully told to eff off?

                      Originally posted by avem View Post
                      nowadays they've suddenly become "part of community".
                      If a company pays FOSS developers to work on FOSS in accordance with the generally accepted rules of FOSS development I really don't see a problem.

                      Originally posted by avem View Post
                      We've seen quite a lot of examples where "open" suddenly becomes not so open, e.g. MySQL, MongoDB, etc. etc. etc. and all the resentment which followed.
                      We have also seen a lot of examples where this didn't happen so I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

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