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AMDVLK 2021.Q2.1 Finally Adds Navi 12 Support

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  • #11
    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
    They had day 1 support on windows.
    Yes, with software that isn't a novelty from Nvidia and a market share of over 90%. It's just plain entitled to expect the same level of support on Linux as on Windows.

    We're also talking about a neat little extra effect that can be toggled on and off. Not something where if you don't have it, the whole game can't run.

    Originally posted by spykes View Post
    VKD3D could implement the support for windows games through Proton, it's not just for native games.
    Support is currently very experimental and not part of any publicly available release. We're talking devs putting up the first screenshots on twitter and talking about how there's still a lot of work to do so this is obviously still months from being released to the public.

    While the specs was finalized in november last year, AMD was able to implement the feature in their Windows driver on day one... So they really have no excuse here.
    Once you pull the "Proton" rug from under this argument it's just entitlement. A company isn't going to be putting equal effort into a platform with sub 2% market share to one with over 90% market share, specially when the only locally run software that sub 2% platform has is a novelty port from a competing other vendor.
    Last edited by L_A_G; 07 April 2021, 10:40 AM.
    "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."

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    • #12
      Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
      A company isn't going to be putting equal effort into a platform with sub 2% market share to one with over 90% market share...
      Well Nvidia does, RTX support on day one on Linux... This market share argument to justify poor Linux support is dumb, especially when talking about a feature like ray tracing in drivers, which is useful way beyond video games (the 3D workstation/render server could use that as well, if it was available)
      It's time to stop finding excuses for AMD's failures. Despite being open-source friendly their Linux support is still not up to their main competitor and that is problem.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by spykes View Post
        Well Nvidia does, RTX support on day one on Linux... This market share argument to justify poor Linux support is dumb, especially when talking about a feature like ray tracing in drivers, which is useful way beyond video games (the 3D workstation/render server could use that as well, if it was available)
        It's time to stop finding excuses for AMD's failures. Despite being open-source friendly their Linux support is still not up to their main competitor and that is problem.
        Nvidia can do that with very little effort because they have their proprietary one-driver-codebase-to-rule-them-all that's shared between Windows, Linux, Android, Nintendo Switch and FreeBSD distributed as one big binary black box. AMD on the other hand relies on something written from the ground up for the Linux DRM subsystem which is much more friendly to new additions like Wayland and being used to improve other drivers. The end result of this is that this code needs to be ported over properly, which obviously takes a lot more time and effort than enabling a few things inside Nvidia's binary blob.

        You obviously don't care about open source or the technical reasons as to why things are the way they are. With that anti open source attitude you may as well be using Windows or Mac OS.
        "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."

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        • #14
          Originally posted by L_A_G View Post

          Nvidia can do that with very little effort because they have their proprietary one-driver-codebase-to-rule-them-all that's shared between Windows, Linux, Android, Nintendo Switch and FreeBSD distributed as one big binary black box. AMD on the other hand relies on something written from the ground up for the Linux DRM subsystem which is much more friendly to new additions like Wayland and being used to improve other drivers. The end result of this is that this code needs to be ported over properly, which obviously takes a lot more time and effort than enabling a few things inside Nvidia's binary blob.
          Nvidia has to deal with Linux specifics bits to handle Linux specific things as well, I don't think this excuse of not having a binary blob is a valid one considering AMD's own vulkan driver and a feature like ray tracing that could share a very similar code between Windows and Linux... We are talking about a mostly (if not all) user space feature here, so Linux DRM is irrelevant.

          You obviously don't care about open source or the technical reasons as to why things are the way they are.
          I'm using Linux for more than 2 decades and I'm enjoying all the open-source world has to bring, but I'm not a zealot and I'm not trying to find excuses to a company poor Linux support just because they have an open-source friendly policy.
          Last edited by spykes; 07 April 2021, 12:03 PM.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by spykes View Post
            Nvidia has to deal with Linux specifics bits to handle Linux specific things as well, I don't think this excuse of not having a binary blob is a valid one considering AMD's own vulkan driver and a feature like ray tracing that could share a very similar code between Windows and Linux... We are talking about a mostly (if not all) user space feature here, so Linux DRM is irrelevant.


            I'm using Linux for more than 2 decades and I'm enjoying all the open-source world has to bring, but I'm not a zealot and I'm not trying to find excuses to a company poor Linux support just because they have an open-source friendly policy.
            linux drm isn't irrelevant and is a valid argument. you sound a lot like the people on the linux_gaming subreddit that has a hard time saying nvidia does anything wrong.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by fafreeman View Post
              linux drm isn't irrelevant and is a valid argument. you sound a lot like the people on the linux_gaming subreddit that has a hard time saying nvidia does anything wrong.
              In which way it's relevant to implement Ray Tracing in the Vulkan Driver ? Could you explain ? You sound like an AMD fanboy having a hard time saying AMD does anything wrong (because it's AMD, they are the good guys doing open source).
              Don't get me wrong, I love free drivers and open-source... but it's not the point here.
              For now AMD gives us nothing in term of ray tracing support, no source code, not even a binary blob while they already did it on Windows 4 months ago !

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              • #17
                Aside from ray tracing and other mambo jambo AMDVLK should get its hands off of our precious RADV.

                By default, AMDVLK driver is enabled. You can switch the driver between AMDVLK and RADV by environment variable AMD_VULKAN_ICD = AMDVLK or RADV.
                I will be uninstalling AMDVLK until this shit is cleaned up from its so called requirements. Before switchable graphics we were able to use any vulkan driver by just changing VK_ICD_FILENAMES variable. Now AMDVLK takes over and GPU0 becomes llvmpipe instead of RADV.

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                • #18
                  It's honestly pathetic that there is no RT driver available from AMD.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
                    Yes, with software that isn't a novelty from Nvidia and a market share of over 90%. It's just plain entitled to expect the same level of support on Linux as on Windows.

                    We're also talking about a neat little extra effect that can be toggled on and off. Not something where if you don't have it, the whole game can't run.
                    Wasn't one of the major talking points from AMD about why they were doing the AMDVLK driver as a port of their windows driver rather than building a community project in Mesa that they would be able to quickly and easily port over features from their windows driver?

                    Meanwhile it's looking more and more like radv may end up reverse engineering the hardware before AMD gets around to adding it to their official drivers.

                    You may be happy with 2nd tier support that doesn't fully support what the hardware is capable of on other platforms, but I think it's perfectly fair for others to have higher standards. To each their own.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by spykes View Post

                      In which way it's relevant to implement Ray Tracing in the Vulkan Driver ? Could you explain ? You sound like an AMD fanboy having a hard time saying AMD does anything wrong (because it's AMD, they are the good guys doing open source).
                      Don't get me wrong, I love free drivers and open-source... but it's not the point here.
                      For now AMD gives us nothing in term of ray tracing support, no source code, not even a binary blob while they already did it on Windows 4 months ago !
                      As a 7 year AMD GPU user and self-reported AMD fanboy -- you should learn to expect that. While they try, their day 1 Linux support has never been as good as their day 1 Windows support. It's kind of par for the course for us to get stuff 3 to 6 months later. Come months 8 or 9, however, stern WTFs will start coming from people as lenient and as understanding as myself. If AMD had spectacular day 1 support the driver wouldn't be known as Fine Wine.

                      I just saw Join Date 2008. You should already know that.

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