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Ray-Tracing Support For AMDGPU LLVM Back-End Lands For RDNA 2

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  • #11
    Originally posted by andre30correia View Post

    are you kidding right? Amd and intel stop supporting their produts in less than 2 years, they only work because some folks in community continue the job, I have some old nvidia cards and they continue to put out new x and kernel compatible upgrades, the amd support is best than years ago, but it continues laking a lot of things, and in the first year with a new card is always a nightmare, hangs, bugs, lack of features on so on
    You really do not know what you write.
    Example?
    A substantial number of engineers working on Mesa, Kernel (and possibly LLVM) are AMD & Intel employees (Merek?)

    Nvidia may still release legacy drivers, but can you use Wayland?
    After years (10 as I mentioned ) NVidia still suffers from tearing in Xorg (so I hear as I dumped NVidia long time ago)

    What features are you missing from AMD linux drivers?

    I personally I have great OpenGL and Vulkan, HDMI audio out, Wayland support, ACO shaders compiler, Linux and Windows games (via proton), accelerated video ouptut .... all for 7Watt power consumption at idle time

    Yes I use a rolling distro: Arch, but Manjaro is very good to, and Fedora is gone rolling too -- AFAIK

    BUT, if you are happy with the blob provider, serve yourself


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    • #12
      Originally posted by sandy8925 View Post

      Sorry no, this is bullshit. Intel and NVIDIA do their work well ahead of time and have day 1 support. If all of the tech reviewers got sample cards but no working drivers until 6 months later, do you think they would be saying positive things about it? No. If Windows users (gamers or not) had a non-working GPU until a few months after release, do you think sales would be good? Hell no.

      Why should we Linux users settle for less when other companies can get their support ready in time?

      Don't give me any shitty excuses, the wya business works is that you invest first and then get a return on it. AMD doesn't tell Windows gamers and users to buy their GPUs with no proper support for months, because they'd make no sales and would pretty much go extinct.

      So cut the bullshit and AMD fan worship. They are rightly criticized for their horrible Linux support.

      are you kidding right? Amd and intel stop supporting their produts in less than 2 years, they only work because some folks in community continue the job, I have some old nvidia cards and they continue to put out new x and kernel compatible upgrades, the amd support is best than years ago, but it continues laking a lot of things, and in the first year with a new card is always a nightmare, hangs, bugs, lack of features on so on
      Troll-detector:

      ***** Trolls detected *****
      Action: Add to ignore list
      ***********************

      Jokes aside: you cannot compare Amds and/or Intels Linux support with Nvidia. The latter is a complete joke and should be avoided with all costs. The fact that Amd might now have zero-day support is not a big deal for the average linux user. For me, I am very very very happy for the open source support and will continue buying Amd.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by White Wolf View Post
        This sounds good. Hope the proper support will be just after the release of RDNA2 GPU's not like with my 5700XT. When I had to wait few months a proper support. This was a joke.
        This is normal if you use the regular Linux support. I recommend to everyone interested in AMD GPUs to not buy in the release date and wait at least six months to start with the support consolidated, but today we live in a society of immediacy. I recognize it's a small inconvenience for Linux.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by sandy8925 View Post

          Sorry no, this is bullshit. Intel and NVIDIA do their work well ahead of time and have day 1 support. If all of the tech reviewers got sample cards but no working drivers until 6 months later, do you think they would be saying positive things about it? No. If Windows users (gamers or not) had a non-working GPU until a few months after release, do you think sales would be good? Hell no.

          Why should we Linux users settle for less when other companies can get their support ready in time?

          Don't give me any shitty excuses, the wya business works is that you invest first and then get a return on it. AMD doesn't tell Windows gamers and users to buy their GPUs with no proper support for months, because they'd make no sales and would pretty much go extinct.

          So cut the bullshit and AMD fan worship. They are rightly criticized for their horrible Linux support.
          I criticized AMD, Intel, and Nvidia based on my own first hand experience (not review I read somewhere). It's sad that you've jumped to such extreme conclusions.

          If you don't agree with me you could say: Well I've had pretty good experience being an early adopter on Nvidia. It's really not as bad as when it was back in 2012, but no... shitty excuses bs amd fan worship what the heck??

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          • #15
            Originally posted by andre30correia View Post

            are you kidding right? Amd and intel stop supporting their produts in less than 2 years, they only work because some folks in community continue the job, I have some old nvidia cards and they continue to put out new x and kernel compatible upgrades, the amd support is best than years ago, but it continues laking a lot of things, and in the first year with a new card is always a nightmare, hangs, bugs, lack of features on so on
            I have an ATI Radeon Mobility HD2600 with 256mb of shared memory in my old Toshiba laptop from 2007. Thirteen years later, and since the GNOME 3.36 provided by Fedora, I can run a Wayland session with a relatively smooth experience and play YouTube videos with the 720p resolution at 60fps, two things I couldn't do only few months ago.

            Thirteen years later the support for my old ATI GPU is still improving, and I don't do anything, only installing the system and start to use it. NVIDIA only improves its GPUs for two or three years, after that only updates the API support, but it doesn't improve the performance. By other hand, I knew some people who had problems with the NVIDIA driver on newer versions of the desktop environments.

            But yes, it's better to wait some months if you want a good experience with a new GPU model.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by ColdDistance View Post

              This is normal if you use the regular Linux support. I recommend to everyone interested in AMD GPUs to not buy in the release date and wait at least six months to start with the support consolidated, but today we live in a society of immediacy. I recognize it's a small inconvenience for Linux.
              Month or two from release date lack of support is ok. Half of year is total ridiculous and saying to wait for support for half outdated hardware as next hardware release is coming is totally idiotic. And it's not normal if it is about a mainstream GPUs, other thing if its a minor device with will be used by 0,0001% users. You can wait a year even.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by Jabberwocky View Post
                I think the demand for alternative to DLSS would be higher than ray tracing, but it's still awesome thing to have in dedicated hardware. Do we know what AMD's plans are for high speed matrix operations?



                This is quite normal for a new architectures. If you want a good experience don't be an early adopter.

                I bought Zen the day it became available. It was particularly bad it took 3 months to get my system semi-stable and over a year to get it fully stable in Linux. My Zen+ system just worked out of the box. I was also an early adopter of Nvidia Optimus ~2012. My system wasn't working properly for over 2 years and was fixed by community patches and standalone software. Intel hasn't released something new since 2008 so I don't really remember what the experience was like.
                As above, there is a difference between early adopter and getting support in half way of release of new hardware and for a hardware part use by mainstrem.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by White Wolf View Post

                  Month or two from release date lack of support is ok. Half of year is total ridiculous and saying to wait for support for half outdated hardware as next hardware release is coming is totally idiotic. And it's not normal if it is about a mainstream GPUs, other thing if its a minor device with will be used by 0,0001% users. You can wait a year even.
                  In principle you are right that waiting 6+ months for proper hardware support is not good.

                  But you also need to to understand the market that the hardware is targeted to. mid-level GPUs are not (usually) for enthusiasts (early-adopters). Same for CPUs.
                  That hardware is sold for well over 1 year for (e.g.) home usage and occasional gamers. And having full support within the first 6 months is ok.
                  In fact the Ryzen 3500 is a great cpu for a number of use case. Same the Ryzen 2500. Combine those with a rx580/vega56 and you have an impressive combo for years to come. All open source stack with no other dependencies.

                  Also note that the launch of the first Zen was problematic due to production (windows had a number of issues too). AFAIK, Vega GPUs were problematic too (in terms of linux drivers) -- this seems to be solved now with a number of Vega56 owner showing to be happy here on phoronix (and performance improving over Mesa release cycles).
                  Radeon 5000 series had a bumpy start (early adopters, same on windows) but I have not seen much complaints .

                  Finally, I do not believe that you need to wait 6 months. Certainly the asynchronous release cycle of different open source project/drivers (kernel, Mesa, Xorg/Wayland/Desktop environment, distro release) may add to the 'lag', but again picking a distro based on a rolling release solves a number of problem, without going into compiling from git.

                  As I mentioned in an earlier post, the difference is mid-(very) long term support vs early ("fanatic" I would say) adoption

                  The pick is yours
                  Last edited by Grinness; 17 September 2020, 11:47 AM.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by Jabberwocky View Post
                    This is quite normal for a new architectures. If you want a good experience don't be an early adopter.
                    actually it's not. polaris was in good shape very quickly. navi is an outlier

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by Girolamo_Cavazzoni View Post
                      As far as I know they offer Linux packages (deb and rpm) from the start.
                      i doubt they offer mesa packages and i'm not going to download drivers from vendor website, it's job for windows users

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