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  • #41
    Originally posted by madscientist159 View Post
    Frame challenge: isn't this a restating of the classic "I'm nobody, I'm not interesting enough for anyone to target me for legal action / crime / etc." trope?
    This is one thing, but your earlier post made it sound like you were worried about people hacking into your machine just to spy on your web browsing.

    Originally posted by madscientist159 View Post
    but the nagging feeling of being monitored tends to change what you do / say / view on the computer (chilling effects).
    In the US, your internet service provider and internet advertisers can legally spy on your web activity, whereas it would be illegal for anyone to hack into your machine. So, that's the root of my incredulity - that someone would hack in, just to collect data on potentially embarrassing places you might visit.

    Maybe if you were a celebrity, politician, or a dissident, but not if you're a random nobody.
    Last edited by coder; 10 December 2019, 09:22 AM.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by chithanh View Post
      That statement reeks of ignorance. For one, the argument was only to show that Intel ME is not immune to vulnerabilities.
      Then, blocking this port in your firewall will stop drive-by attacks, but not a determined attacker. They will just bounce off the web browsers, micro-targeting you with malicious ads and using one of the numerous holes in popular browsers' same-origin policy that pop up every year.
      Lol, you're new to the security world I see. Newsflash: Nothing is immune to vulnerabilities. This ME/PSP myopia that you and madscientist seem afflicted with is but a tiny drop in the bucket in the world of security. Proper security architecture takes into account that every piece of hardware and software you own will have vulnerabilities found in it. Putting ME/PSP on a pedestal and claiming that the sky is falling because of it is chicken little thinking.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by coder View Post
        This is one thing, but your earlier post made it sound like you were worried about people hacking into your machine just to spy on your web browsing.
        What would make an attacker stop there? If anything, I would expect interest to be raised in the contents of your machine by web browsing activity (or public posts / tweets / etc.), then a targeted attack to occur based on that activity.

        If you never store anything of any value on the machine, then yes, you may very well fit the definition of "nobody". But if there's information that is valuable in its own right (note this definition varies wildly based on who is looking -- it could range from cryptocurrency wallets to embarrassing information you'd pay to make go away in an extortion / blackmail scam), then you're no longer a nobody in everyone's eyes.

        At the end of the day it's your call -- if you're OK with a highly privileged black box inside your computer that could at any moment have a RCE zero day dropped that you can't patch (only Intel/AMD can), then there's really no reason to move away from Intel/AMD. Personally, professionally, I'm most certainly not OK with a user-unpatchable network-enabled critical subsystem hiding away in my machines, but part of that is because I rely on safe computers -- a complete outage of even days due to some critical vulnerability would be seriously disruptive to me, let alone an undetected zero day that is exploited somehow to e.g. steal valuable data. I've patched kernels before to disable or fix insecure functionality when zero days have dropped -- overall downtime measured in minutes to hours. Waiting for vendors to release updates is normally days at best, more typically weeks -- and sometimes it does become "throw away the hardware" since it's out of support.

        Originally posted by torsionbar28
        Proper security architecture takes into account that every piece of hardware and software you own will have vulnerabilities found in it.
        The first useful thing you've said on this thread! Yes, this is true. Which is why I absolutely insist on the ability to freely modify that software as required to plug any vulnerabilities found on my timetable, not the vendor's. And if it's a true hardware vulnerability on a network enabled device, I reserve every right to sue for defective / not fit for purpose product.
        Last edited by madscientist159; 11 December 2019, 03:24 PM.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
          This ME/PSP myopia that you and madscientist seem afflicted with is but a tiny drop in the bucket in the world of security. Proper security architecture takes into account that every piece of hardware and software you own will have vulnerabilities found in it. Putting ME/PSP on a pedestal and claiming that the sky is falling because of it is chicken little thinking.
          It's a black box with privileged access to your system. That's what puts it on a pedestal.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by madscientist159 View Post
            The first useful thing you've said on this thread!
            You mis-attributed that to me. That was torsionbar28 .

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            • #46
              Originally posted by coder View Post
              You mis-attributed that to me. That was torsionbar28 .
              Did I mention how much I enjoy vBulletin's lack of a multi-quote feature (and having to copy/paste from a new window or manually type all quote strings past the first as a result)?

              Sorry about that!

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              • #47
                Originally posted by madscientist159 View Post

                If you have source code for the game (think Xonitic, Unreal Engine 4, etc.) the games play just as well as x86. If you don't, as you alluded to you have to emulate the x86 ISA, which is a legal minefield more than anything else. Interestingly, in the past various (commercial) products existed to emulate x86 on ppc with fairly decent speed -- QEMU is not that product, but it can still play some emulated older games: https://wiki.raptorcs.com/wiki/File:...64_demo_nr.mp4

                My (very limited) understanding is that some parts of the x86 ISA may be free to emulate at this point due to expiry of patent, but IANAL and AFAIK there has been no actual legal guidance on this topic beyond Intel's continued tolerance of (no action against) the upstream QEMU code. If one is indeed legally able to emulate e.g. an old Pentium III (i.e. 32-bit, SSE) then there would definitely be ways to get performance of a dedicated x86-->POWER translator up to reasonable levels, given the success of similar commercial products in the past.

                That being said, home server? You need to game on that? My official recommendation has always been to pick up some cheap x86 box specifically for gaming (some of us call it a Playstation ), but keep your personal / valuable data on the secure machine.
                For me its important as some proof of technology.. and glimpse of future. That problem is laws.. i dont thing so, its not first that some x86 code would be run on other machine, there are zillions of emulators, even Qemu is one of them.
                We really need some instruction set independent future, i now that big companies like HP and IBM not want that because we will see how bad Ithanium or Powers are in comparision with x86, even Linus want to migrate to ARM, but migrate to ARM without legacy x86 stuff is not good idea.

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