RADV Lands More Fixes + Performance Improvements Into Mesa 19.3

[skeevy420]

Michael mentioned the same issue twice in his article.
Also I find it weird if people question why driver developers would bother with fixing performance regressions.

Even more so with the comments like "why would Valve bother fixing problems with games they don't offer". Perhaps it's because they're also in the OS business and in the OS business you have to worry about what works on the entire platform and not just what your company makes...don't fix competitors' stuff and they start risking breaking anti-trust and monopoly laws. It's both good PR and looks good for the courts if/when someone sues them.

It's really no different than Microsoft fixing a bug that only effects Photoshop. Microsoft doesn't make Photoshop, but they'd be dumb as hell not to fix a problem that only effects Photoshop because it's a popular piece of software. Valve fixing a popular game that isn't theirs at the driver level is pretty much the same damn thing.

[pal666]

All I'm saying is it's odd to help a competitor

to help a competitor would be to fix windows driver
valve is helping steamos

[schmidtbag]

to help a competitor would be to fix windows driver
valve is helping steamos

Pretty sure Valve has no intention whatsoever to include Battle.net on SteamOS...

[skeevy420]

Pretty sure Valve has no intention whatsoever to include Battle.net on SteamOS...

Include it -- doubtful.

Ensure it works -- likely.

You don't make a general-use for the public OS just to cater to your own proprietary solutions. That's literally the cause of Microsoft's legal issues in the late 90s and why IE isn't tied into core Windows functionality anymore.

Making a platform and then discriminating your competition is grounds for anti-trust accusations regardless of the industry.

Am I doing this wrong? Should I be all "Fuck Valve for funding and supporting open source projects like DXVK and MESA since DXVK and MESA try to fix any game regardless of who makes it."?.

[Teggs]

As far as 'helping the competition' goes, I expect most people playing Heroes of the Storm on Linux know that they have Valve to thank in part for working on and supporting Wine, DXVK, and RADV. Even from the most cynical view, that kind of reputation is good for the bottom line.

[smitty3268]

Out of curiosity, did Pitoiset make these patches specifically for games like HotS? Because it's a little strange to me a Valve developer spent so much time working on a game that isn't and won't be available on Steam. Not that I'm complaining; just the opposite. He's obviously doing good work, I just find it a bit odd he's the one who got the game to work better. Of course, I'm not expecting Blizzard to do it either.

An end-user filed a bug and complained that HotS performance had regressed. Pitoiset then investigated that report to try and figure out what was going on. I think the issue was actually more widespread and will affect multiple games, but since he already had a good example worst case scenario with HotS it made sense to just test the fix against that and report on it's performance.

Anyway, in general I think Valve is doing a decent job of making sure non-Valve titles get some attention. I'm sure it's under the theory of making the platform as a whole better. I also don't think this particular regression was fixed extremely quickly, so I suspect it wasn't at the top of his todo list and he just got around to figuring it out now.

[pal666]

Pretty sure Valve has no intention whatsoever to include Battle.net on SteamOS...

valve can't include battle.net on steamos, but surely valve wants to make sure battle.net or any other game runs well on steamos because it will increase steamos popularity and indirectly increase valve profits. again it's not like you will run business, but it's like valve runs it. it releases software for free because it then can sell more hats

[aufkrawall]

Though Samuel/Bas decide what get's fixed/improved, so it's also thanks to their goodwill.
But it also should just make sense from a technical view, as issues likely affect more than one program and you probably don't want to accumulate lots of open issue cases which turn into a mess at some point.

[schmidtbag]

You don't make a general-use for the public OS just to cater to your own proprietary solutions. That's literally the cause of Microsoft's legal issues in the late 90s and why IE isn't tied into core Windows functionality anymore.

If you think that sort of stuff isn't still going on, you're very mistaken. Companies have just got smarter/sneakier about it (or in some cases, they accept the fact they're going to get sued for it and don't care).
Anyway, it's been plainly obvious SteamOS was never meant to be a general purpose OS. The whole thing is intended to be a seamless experience (much like a console, which BTW, is just a specialized gaming PC with a locked-down OS). Does that mean Valve is going to prevent people from installing other DRMs and non-Steam games? No, of course not. Steam itself allows you to add games to your list that aren't on your account. But it's absurd if you seriously think Valve is going to spoonfeed you the ability to install their competitor's DRMs/stores, because nobody does that. Valve can and will cater to their own proprietary solutions (AKA, Steam) but just because it caters to that, doesn't mean they're going to prevent you from using other DRMs/stores. So if anything, "Steam Machines" will be slightly less restricted than consoles.
If you still insist to disagree, take a hard look at ChromeOS. Unlike SteamOS, that actually is a general-use for-the-public OS, and yet, that's incredibly locked-down, and integrated with Google's ecosystem and store. Nothing is preventing you from installing Firefox on it, but Google sure as hell doesn't make it easy. I predict SteamOS is going to offer much more freedom than this, but again, doesn't mean Valve has any incentive to go out of their way for competing stores/DRMs.

Making a platform and then discriminating your competition is grounds for anti-trust accusations regardless of the industry.

It's not discrimination when the competition is not creating binary compatibility for Linux and has no intention to. You don't see people suing Apple because certain Windows games won't play on MacOS.

Am I doing this wrong? Should I be all "Fuck Valve for funding and supporting open source projects like DXVK and MESA since DXVK and MESA try to fix any game regardless of who makes it."?.

wtf? You've got a seriously toxic attitude. What part of "Not that I'm complaining; just the opposite. He's obviously doing good work" do you not understand?
I'm one of the few people on these forums that actually likes Valve. Every game I buy today is either on Steam or GOG, even though I have accounts everywhere else too. These fixes for RADV is one of the many reasons I like Valve.

TL;DR:
The entire point of my post could be summed up as "I'm glad Valve is doing something that doesn't benefit them".

[skeevy420]

If you think that sort of stuff isn't still going on, you're very mistaken. Companies have just got smarter/sneakier about it (or in some cases, they accept the fact they're going to get sued for it and don't care).
Anyway, it's been plainly obvious SteamOS was never meant to be a general purpose OS. The whole thing is intended to be a seamless experience (much like a console, which BTW, is just a specialized gaming PC with a locked-down OS). Does that mean Valve is going to prevent people from installing other DRMs and non-Steam games? No, of course not. Steam itself allows you to add games to your list that aren't on your account. But it's absurd if you seriously think Valve is going to spoonfeed you the ability to install their competitor's DRMs/stores, because nobody does that. Valve can and will cater to their own proprietary solutions (AKA, Steam) but just because it caters to that, doesn't mean they're going to prevent you from using other DRMs/stores. So if anything, "Steam Machines" will be slightly less restricted than consoles.
If you still insist to disagree, take a hard look at ChromeOS. Unlike SteamOS, that actually is a general-use for-the-public OS, and yet, that's incredibly locked-down, and integrated with Google's ecosystem and store. Nothing is preventing you from installing Firefox on it, but Google sure as hell doesn't make it easy. I predict SteamOS is going to offer much more freedom than this, but again, doesn't mean Valve has any incentive to go out of their way for competing stores/DRMs.

I never said it wasn't and I'm aware that it's the worst it's ever been.

It's not discrimination when the competition is not creating binary compatibility for Linux and has no intention to. You don't see people suing Apple because certain Windows games won't play on MacOS.

Not in that instance, no. Valve with SteamOS, however, uses both a Windows compatibility layer and open source drivers; not supporting others when bringing up their own work with either of those can be taken as a form on discrimination. Since Valve is the most likely company ever to be sued on those grounds, it makes sense to make sure a competitor's product works.

Also, would you buy a Valve SteamOS Gaming PC if all you had access to was just Steam for games and programs? Nope. No you wouldn't. Nobody buys something with Gaming PC in the title to have a console-styled vendor lock-in and Valve knows that. Helping fix a competitor's product shows that they want us to have an actual Gaming PC and not a console experience.

wtf? You've got a seriously toxic attitude. What part of "Not that I'm complaining; just the opposite. He's obviously doing good work" do you not understand?
I'm one of the few people on these forums that actually likes Valve. Every game I buy today is either on Steam or GOG, even though I have accounts everywhere else too. These fixes for RADV is one of the many reasons I like Valve.

Nah. Read all the other negative comments other users have posted. Those are who I'm making fun of there .

I, for one, am happy Valve takes my money and spends it in ways that help all of us and that they help out in more than just their niche.