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  • #91
    I would also like to voice my opinion that bridgman should push the powers-that-be to make DRM less obtrusive in future GPU designs, FWIW.
    I started that last year. Just need to remember that the pipeline is 3-4 years long so there won't be any significant results for quite a while.

    A wafer run at the size and process we use is millions of dollars, not thousands. The upstream work to redo the back-end design and tape out is probably as much again.

    Remember that removing the DRM hardware is not the issue, other than giving the owner of the hardware a nice warm fuzzy feeling. We need to change the programming model of the stuff we keep so that telling you how to program the blocks you WANT to use does not also provide enough information to help someone else bypass the DRM on a system which did support it.
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    • #92
      We're perfectly in sync on this, then.

      I can wait 2-3 years more to see any results, that's not a problem. It's good to see you making pushes in the right directions, ensuring future F/OSS support is possible.

      If you'd ever like a recommendation or testimonial for your works, please let me know.

      Keep up the good fight, you're making even long time Nvidia die-hards think a bit about their choices these days.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by duby229 View Post
        From what I understood, the term was deliberate... Stallman I believe coined it to promote freedom...
        Yes, that's well known. That doesn't make it any less of a ridiculously stupid name. If you mention Open Source and a person isn't familiar with the term, they're not going to just assume that you meant something else; they'll ask or they'll look it up. If you mention Free Software and someone isn't familiar with the term, they don't even realize that you weren't speaking plain English.

        It'd be like naming a sandwich "the Herpe." Imagine how that would work out. "Hey Jim, want to go get some Herpes?" "Um... pass."

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        • #94
          Originally posted by bridgman View Post
          I started that last year. Just need to remember that the pipeline is 3-4 years long so there won't be any significant results for quite a while.

          A wafer run at the size and process we use is millions of dollars, not thousands. The upstream work to redo the back-end design and tape out is probably as much again.

          Remember that removing the DRM hardware is not the issue, other than giving the owner of the hardware a nice warm fuzzy feeling. We need to change the programming model of the stuff we keep so that telling you how to program the blocks you WANT to use does not also provide enough information to help someone else bypass the DRM on a system which did support it.
          I can be perfectly happy with this.. As long as that hardware can be completely disabled, and bypassed, I'd be perfectly happy.

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          • #95
            Originally posted by elanthis View Post
            Yes, that's well known. That doesn't make it any less of a ridiculously stupid name. If you mention Open Source and a person isn't familiar with the term, they're not going to just assume that you meant something else; they'll ask or they'll look it up. If you mention Free Software and someone isn't familiar with the term, they don't even realize that you weren't speaking plain English.

            It'd be like naming a sandwich "the Herpe." Imagine how that would work out. "Hey Jim, want to go get some Herpes?" "Um... pass."
            You and I agree completely on that. Thats the same reason I prefer the term open source software over free software.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by duby229 View Post
              You and I agree completely on that. Thats the same reason I prefer the term open source software over free software.
              I'm with Stallman on this. The term Open Source Software was introduced by companies and managers so they don't scare away investors with the word free. It just describes the license, but doesn't say anything about the "spirit" of Free (Open Source) Software.
              But maybe that's also because I'm less annoyed by the two meanings of free, since in my native language (german) the word (frei) only has the free-as-in-free-speech meaning.
              When typing I usualy use FOSS (which is also faster to type ).

              Edit: Wait, did this thread just go totaly off-topic again? <.<
              Last edited by Zhick; 25 November 2008, 04:55 PM.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Zhick View Post
                I'm with Stallman on this. The term Open Source Software was introduced by companies and managers so they don't scare away investors with the word free. It just describes the license, but doesn't say anything about the "spirit" of Free (Open Source) Software.
                But maybe that's also because I'm less annoyed by the two meanings of free, since in my native language (german) the word (frei) only has the free-as-in-free-speech meaning.
                When typing I usualy use FOSS (which is also faster to type ).

                Edit: Wait, did this thread just go totaly off-topic again? <.<
                You make a very good point... I guess it depends on the native language that you speak. I speak an american dialect of english where free has at least 2 meanings, possibly more if you consider some of the slang used in my area. In my mind the word free is often used to get people to pay for something that they wouldnt otherwise have paid for.. For example "free shipping", I mean come on we all knwo that it isnt really free, they just incorporate the cost of shipping into the price of the product...

                I live in a medium sized american city, where we are inundated with advertizing, and free has become a very negative term.

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                • #98
                  Few things I hate about fglrx
                  I just registered to Phoronix Forums only to provide DAAMIT guys reading this stuff with some feedback.
                  I've recently got myself a brand new machine because I thought the old one was fried. I decided to go full-DAAMIT because I want to show my respect and support for the seemingly "manufacturer of choice" for no-fu_king-way-M$ users.
                  At the time of purchase (in fact until now - that's what this thread is all about), there was no fully functional FOSS driver for the GPU I have bought, so I was left in the dark with no other choice than trying to at least temporarily use fglrx.
                  I don't mean to be blunt, but as far as I'm concerned, the whole effort to dramatically improve your blob was nothing but a huge waste of your time and resources (and our time and nerves)!
                  I've experienced so many deadlocks during the last 2 days it makes that "ridiculous parody for absolutely useless OS" called Windows seem perfectly stable, so at least for me fglrx still sucks so hard there ain't words for it - it's one hell of a pain in the ass from the installation process to stability and functionality.
                  I've read your comments on the issue and I understand you guys are scared of these slimy "business" idiots suing you because of all these DRM/IP/patent bullshits, but as much as we don't wanna see you commit a legal suicide, every day passing without rock-solid support for all your hardware in our OS of choice, your loyal customers are more pissed off being treated like they weren't even there and feeling like they just fell for false promises of your PR department.
                  I really hope we get our FOSS drivers ASAP and all this will become just an unpleasant memory, because every hacker having abjections against blobs has turned out to be 100% right with his arguments.

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                  • #99
                    Can you give some details about your system ? Distro, GPU, bus etc ?

                    For what it's worth, the IP review for releasing info is happening in parallel with development of the open source 3d engine code in the driver - one is not delaying the other, at least not for a few more weeks.
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                    • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                      Can you give some details about your system ? Distro, GPU, bus etc ?

                      For what it's worth, the IP review for releasing info is happening in parallel with development of the open source 3d engine code in the driver - one is not delaying the other, at least not for a few more weeks.
                      Still it would be far better to have an open development policy. This behind closed doors crap is not cool. Though it's better then nothing, so I'll just keep my objections to a minimum.

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