NVIDIA's Linux Driver Continues Offering Similar OpenGL Performance To Windows

[deppman]

Least amount of trouble? That is false...
This is the installation procedure:
Nvidia:
1. Install linux
2. Install drivers

Amd:
1. Install linux... (Mesa is already there)

Clearly Amd is a lot less trouble...

... Until you run into this step:

3. Run application

With NV drivers, it just works. With AMD, its time to upgrade to 4.12 kernel, load Mesa from Git, and descend into Dante's 9th circle of regression hell. Look at all Michael's benches: in an effort to make AMD look better he keeps using Beta/Alpha/Git snapshot software including the Kernel. While this might be fun for dual-boot tinkerers it is unacceptable for mission-critical workstations.

My son plays dozens of steam games, many of them unavailable on AMD GPUs. The total time spent tinkering to make those games work on our GPU is almost always 0 minutes per week. Not my experience with AMD. At all.

No worries mate, buy what makes you happy. But let's be honest with the Linux newbies and professionals who want and need things to work reliably with minimal trouble.

EDIT: To wit, check out this latest article: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...new-1710&num=1 Alpha, Beta, Git. And a gem of a quote that sums it up all the constant trouble getting performant and stable AMD drivers from anywhere:

The AMDGPU-PRO 17.10 driver was tested on Ubuntu 16.10 since the hybrid driver doesn't yet support Ubuntu 17.04 / newer Linux kernel / X.Org Server releases. But the Padoka PPA no longer ships the latest drivers for 16.10 and when building Mesa Git on Ubuntu 16.10, I ended up hitting Unity/GLAMOR issues. So for the open-source tests I did that from Ubuntu 17.04.

[bridgman]

With NV drivers, it just works. With AMD, its time to upgrade to 4.12 kernel, load Mesa from Git, and descend into Dante's 9th circle of regression hell. Look at all Michael's benches: in an effort to make AMD look better he keeps using Beta/Alpha/Git snapshot software including the Kernel. While this might be fun for dual-boot tinkerers it is unacceptable for mission-critical workstations.

My son plays dozens of steam games, many of them unavailable on AMD GPUs. The total time spent tinkering to make those games work on our GPU is almost always 0 minutes per week. Not my experience with AMD. At all.

Can I ask you to take another look at this ? 6-12 months ago what you say was certainly the case; new GL features were being added and so it wasn't unusual for a game to require something which had just been added to the driver. These days, however, most of the work is going into performance tuning rather than feature/application enabling.

Michael picks up latest code because he is reporting on performance progress; unless you are running a relatively old distro (or a new distro with relatively old components) I don't *think* you should be seeing much in the way of "more apps working" from updating kernel & mesa any more. Dying Light is an exception (a workaround was recently added for what was IIRC a bug in the application) but I don't think there are many others.

[deppman]

Can I ask you to take another look at this? 6-12 months ago what you say was certainly the case; new GL features were being added and so it wasn't unusual for a game to require something which had just been added to the driver. These days, however, most of the work is going into performance tuning rather than feature/application enabling.

If you look at Linux system integrators (System76, ZaReason) you're hard pressed to find any AMD GPUs because they are impossible to support. Perhaps this is changing now but has yet to propagate through the supply chain. Nvidia has been shipping high-profile Linux devices since at least 2014 (Jetson TK1, TX1, TX2, Drive PX1, Drive PX2) and certifies drivers for professional apps. If AMD were to do something similar I expect their stack would improve substantially.

I might try an RX560 in the next few months to see how they compare. My guess is that AMD are at least a year away from approaching parity with Nvidia drivers in many use cases.

This may surprise you, but recently I was consulting for embedded systems and concluded that the Core-m series of SoCs were a better choice than any Nvidia SoCs for the desired use-case. Here the benefit of the fast-and-stable-Intel-OSS-iGPU-driver and x86 compatibility outweighed the benefits of lower power and better GPU of the Tegra chips. So I certainly understand the benefit and value of quality OSS drivers!

[deppman]

Minimal trouble in nvidia way: Install driver using the terminal and command line only. No www available for support. No easy way to roll back, if the new nv driver does not boot or you do not like it. Patching for new kernels is really fun and user friendly.

These are issues a pro or newbie users will never see. The drivers are included as OS packages. Only those who live on the bleeding edge will encounter these issues.

[deppman]

I was on the verge of getting an Nvidia card but recently tried to set up a few laptops that had incredible, and unsolvable, screen tearing problems. Unfortunately I need both core and compatibility mode OpenGL 4.5 support so my expensive R9 390 has become the most expensive paperweight I've ever purchased, and I really need to get something that works completely under Linux. And wow, actually having a GUI to change an expensive cards settings would also be a plus.

However I'm not sure if the Nvidia screen tearing problems are confined to older or mobile GPUs, and I don't want to throw good money after bad. Does anyone have any personal experience with modern desktop Nvidia GPUs on Linux and Wine?

I have no tearing issues on either of my NV-powered machines. The laptop has GSync and a GTX 970m (System 76 Oryx Pro) and the display is awesome. However while tuning my overclock recently I found a setting that apparently works so well that I forgot about it! This is also the Kubuntu Preferred Apps guide.

#!/bin/sh
# Setting to ensure NVIDIA drivers do not have tearing.
# See https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=322060#c96
export __GL_YIELD="USLEEP"

# And an overclock
/usr/bin/nvidia-settings \
   -a "[gpu:0]/GPUMemoryTransferRateOffset[3]=180" \
   -a "[gpu:0]/GPUGraphicsClockOffset[3]=200"

nvidia-settings is good. See the guide on how to configure and overclock your card.

[muncrief]

I have no tearing issues on either of my NV-powered machines. The laptop has GSync and a GTX 970m (System 76 Oryx Pro) and the display is awesome. However while tuning my overclock recently I found a setting that apparently works so well that I forgot about it! This is also the Kubuntu Preferred Apps guide.

#!/bin/sh
# Setting to ensure NVIDIA drivers do not have tearing.
# See https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=322060#c96
export __GL_YIELD="USLEEP"

# And an overclock
/usr/bin/nvidia-settings \
-a "[gpu:0]/GPUMemoryTransferRateOffset[3]=180" \
-a "[gpu:0]/GPUGraphicsClockOffset[3]=200"

nvidia-settings is good. See the guide on how to configure and overclock your card.

Thank you deppman. Will this work with Xubuntu? I installed Kubuntu 16.04 in a VM the other day because I hadn't looked at KDE for a few years and while it's beautiful it's just not for me. I like a straightforward simple desktop and XFCE seems to be the only one left. Heck, even Mate is too much I think I'm just too old and set in my ways to change

[deppman]

muncrief the only way to know it's to try (or so says Yoda). I'd recommend using a live USB key on NV hardware and then check. If you can't do that I prolly could over lunch on a GTX 970m, but the GSync there will probably prevent any issues. I could the office the desktop tonight. Let me know if you need the help.

[muncrief]

muncrief the only way to know it's to try (or so says Yoda). I'd recommend using a live USB key on NV hardware and then check. If you can't do that I prolly could over lunch on a GTX 970m, but the GSync there will probably prevent any issues. I could the office the desktop tonight. Let me know if you need the help.

I don't have an Nvidia card deppman, but unless the AMDGPU-PRO drivers are fixed within the next two weeks I'm almost certainly going to get one if screen tearing isn't an issue. I need OpenGL 4.5 compatibility mode to work so I have to use AMDGPU-PRO, but all the AMD drivers after 16.50 cause corrupt graphics in the only game I actually play under Wine. I've crippled together some patched 16.50 drivers that work with kernel 4.9 but as of a few days ago I started having to hold back a package to use them, and I can see it's only going to get worse. So if you have the time I'd appreciate knowing if it works. And thank you very much for your help!

[deppman]

I don't have an Nvidia card deppman, but unless the AMDGPU-PRO drivers are fixed within the next two weeks I'm almost certainly going to get one if screen tearing isn't an issue. I need OpenGL 4.5 compatibility mode to work so I have to use AMDGPU-PRO, but all the AMD drivers after 16.50 cause corrupt graphics in the only game I actually play under Wine. I've crippled together some patched 16.50 drivers that work with kernel 4.9 but as of a few days ago I started having to hold back a package to use them, and I can see it's only going to get worse. So if you have the time I'd appreciate knowing if it works. And thank you very much for your help!

So I've tried a live Xubuntu USB and installed the Nvidia driver and didn't get very far. Apparently the NV driver is a challenge on LiveCDs. This is all I can invest in this venture. My advice is to buy an NV card ASAP and give it a go. If the screen does tear, check out this guide on how to resolve. My guess is your will see a significant improvement in a number of area, and that any screen-tearing issue should be manageable. Good luck!

[muncrief]

So I've tried a live Xubuntu USB and installed the Nvidia driver and didn't get very far. Apparently the NV driver is a challenge on LiveCDs. This is all I can invest in this venture. My advice is to buy an NV card ASAP and give it a go. If the screen does tear, check out this guide on how to resolve. My guess is your will see a significant improvement in a number of area, and that any screen-tearing issue should be manageable. Good luck!

Okay, thank you for trying deppman, I appreciate it. We'll see how things pan out over the next few weeks. It's really going to make me cringe having to abandon AMD though, especially since I just bought this $330 R9-390 less than a year ago. But sheesh, it's just an endless problem that doesn't seem like it's going to get better anytime soon.