Editorial: Using NVIDIA On Linux For The First Time In 10 Years

[Guest]

Honestly I don't quite get what the fuss about installing the Nvidia driver on Fedora is about. Even on Arch it boils down to installing the nvidia package, can't be that hard for them to make a package which sets up things automatically.

- Fedora comes with no packages for NVIDIA's graphics driver out-the-box. You either need RPM Fusion and it's "meh" NVIDIA package, or you need both RPM Fusion and negativo17's repo for a good NVIDIA driver (this requires adding 1 or 2 3rd-party repos, one of which is massive and hasn't the largest track-record of good things)

- I haven't tried the RPM Fusion driver package, so I can't really comment further on it's install process

- negativo17's repo requires you to read to figure out what packages you need. Arch does as well though, so nothing really different here. Ubuntu is a one-package solution that handles the kernel module, 32-bit and 64-bit libraries, and CUDA, but to be fair, it isn't really part of the discussion atm

- Akmods vs DKMS. Which one? DKMS is likely more-known, but Akmods is more Fedora-specific. A new user concerned with the "best experience" may easily be stumped with this. As I understand, Fedora doesn't support DKMS and made Akmods to replace it. If DKMS is installed though, then you need RPM Fusion to get the package for it.

- Assuming you've chosen Akmods, you have no idea the kernel module is even being built after driver install. The only clue I have is that my fans spin up. If the kernel module isn't built, then upon next boot, X won't start and you'll have to reboot again (and there's no feedback about this process at all unless you "just know" how this works ) and from what I've seen, kernel updates in Fedora don't immediately trigger akmods during the install process, which also leads to this happening (install new kernel, no sign of akmods, reboot, no X). DKMS may be better in this regard but I have no idea.

- negativo17's driver doesn't support KMS currently. This isn't made entirely clear on his notes page, and recently, had me, a NVIDIA employee for Linux bugs, and another user pretty stumped for a while until I found a comment from slaanesh directly stating KMS isn't supported. So as it stands currently, you can't use the recently-released tear-free experience on Prime/Optimus hardware, or any other benefit of KMS.

Compared to Arch, the NVIDIA package is in the default repos, and for a default-setup (no KMS), has no messing around with kernel modules to worry about. The NV driver on Arch is way easier/more simple.

Also, the process for both becomes much more fun with involving Optimus, but it's generally the same additional steps on Arch and Fedora. On Fedora with negativo17's driver, you have to get rid of some added kernel options though (nomodeset and some gfxpayload thing).

I miss the simplicity of my AMD hardware so much...

[Luke]

There was mention of having to fiddle with secure boot to get the card to work. Was this CPU/motherboard secure boot? What happens if the card it installed in a BIOS board or other non-secure boot supporting motherboard like all of mine? What happens if the user disables secure boot or removes the Microsoft keys?

One thing is for sure: I will never use any hardware that is locked against functioning without Microsoft secure boot keys or which cannot be used with my own locally-built kernels which by definition have to be unsigned or self-signed. Thankfully no such issues exist with AMD and open drivers. If AMD produces cards with firmware requiring secure boot, those too I will consider expensive paperweights.

[bug77]

*describes the experience of installing Nvidia proprietary drivers on Fedora*

I miss the simplicity of my AMD hardware so much...

How does Fedora making it complicated to install software drivers makes you miss hardware?
As already noted countless times here on Phoronix, installing either Nvidia's blob or AMD's AMDGPU can and will be a pain, depending on your distro of choice. But that's hardly related to hardware.

[Del_]

AMD is nowhere near what it was eight years ago. Nvidia is however exactly that. I check out Linux performance on radeonsi right here on phoronix before I buy any game. If it performs I buy it. If not, I don't. My kids already waste way too much time on the games that work well. The current progress is already providing too many of those games. Shadow of mordor? Simply didn't buy it yet. Does it show competitive performance on AMD now? Bought the full Metro pack though. I have no need for nvidia anymore. Three or more years ago I only bought nvidia. From that era I see AMD cards still providing great service, while nvidia don't to the point of useless.

[bug77]

There was mention of having to fiddle with secure boot to get the card to work. Was this CPU/motherboard secure boot? What happens if the card it installed in a BIOS board or other non-secure boot supporting motherboard like all of mine? What happens if the user disables secure boot or removes the Microsoft keys?

One thing is for sure: I will never use any hardware that is locked against functioning without Microsoft secure boot keys or which cannot be used with my own locally-built kernels which by definition have to be unsigned or self-signed. Thankfully no such issues exist with AMD and open drivers. If AMD produces cards with firmware requiring secure boot, those too I will consider expensive paperweights.

Right now secure boot is optional on desktops (i.e. you can disable it). I'm running an almost identical card (EVGA 1060 SC) on a machine with secure boot disabled as I'm typing this.
Fwiw, secure boot is part of the UEFI spec, so love it or hate it, it's here to stay.

[Guest]

How does Fedora making it complicated to install software drivers makes you miss hardware?
As already noted countless times here on Phoronix, installing either Nvidia's blob or AMD's AMDGPU can and will be a pain, depending on your distro of choice. But that's hardly related to hardware.

Fedora isn't the only distro I've had headache with. I've been on Ubuntu (which was the easiest experience), openSUSE TW (no pre-built pacakge, all manual), Solus (had a severely outdated driver for months which meant using a manual driver for a while), and Arch (different process for every DE). I use Optimus which does make the process for figuring out NV's driver install much more detailed, but all of those distros have a different method for installation which I had to figure out with a trial-and-error process for the most part.

I have no need for GPU-PRO. AMD's open-source graphics drivers "just work" (I've had a R9 380 and AMDGPU worked fine without issue on all those distros, excluding Solus since I didn't try it there), and I can choose to add additional repos on most of those distros if I want more up-to-date components. nouveau would be the same experience, but it's useless on Maxwell (currently) and thus, I need the proprietary driver.

[Guest]

Should also add that my install process for Optimus is to use the officially supported NVIDIA Prime method, which means no GPU switching. That off the bat means higher power usage too, and prior to X 1.19, also means screen tearing. Don't even get me started with Bumblebee (lower performance, lower compatibility, and on newer laptops it can expose ACPI-related issues easily too which can either lead to entire system freezes, or the dGPU just not shutting off at all which makes the use of Bumblebee pretty pointless, although to be fair, some laptops can be fixed with a acpi_osi kernel option, but non-tested laptops are trial-and-error).

My dual-graphics AMD laptop with the open-source graphics drivers also "just worked" in this regard. Out-the-box, the dGPU had proper power management and powered off when not in-use. If I wanted to use it, I just passed DRI_PRIME=1 and it worked as-expected, and with Fedora 25, I imagine I could just right-click launchers now and run on the dGPU.

[schmidtbag]

About 8 years ago I was at a crossroads for video cards, AMD or NVidia, and I remember asking for opinions on a forum similar to this and got the same answer you posted above. That should be pause for reflection. In the last 8 years AMD cards are still in the same situation. Granted, they have made strides, but if you are looking to game on Linux NVIDIA is still the best solution now and for the foreseeable future. AMD could still take years to come to parity. You'd only choose AMD for more ideological reasons.

Irrelevant comparison. 8 years ago, contrary to their claims, AMD didn't care about Linux. They put little to no effort into Catalyst and the open source radeon drivers were almost unusable. Back then, it was entirely just speculation and hope that were keeping the drivers alive.

Today is completely different. AMD now has a legitimate dedicated Linux team with real talent. Within 3 or so years they turned a nearly unusable driver into something that can play just about any Linux-compatible game. If you have a GCN 1.2 GPU, you'll have OpenGL 4.5 support, good working power management + reclocking tools, Vulkan support, modest OpenCL support, HDMI audio, some PRIME support, great multi-monitor support, etc. Are you not aware these features exist? Are you not aware that the "todo" list is shrinking at a dramatic rate? Are you not aware there is a finite amount of things to do? At least once a month, the AMD drivers have a new feature, a significant performance improvement, or both. Of the things that the AMD drivers currently don't have, most are either actively in development or Nvidia's equivalent isn't in much better shape.

I don't understand how you can completely deny the fact that there is progress even though the end is in sight. That's like saying "climate change doesn't exist because there was a blizzard last year".

[darkbasic]

I don't feel shame for my informed decision, and any AMD fanboys that want me to feel shame can kiss my ass. I've bought plenty of ATI/AMD cards in the past and will prefer AMD in the future if they have competitive products.

You care for "competitive silicon", I care for freedom. Your problem. This is not an informed decision, just a stupid one.

[DanL]

You care for "competitive silicon", I care for freedom.

I care for both and I'm pragmatic about it.

Your problem.

My graphics card works just fine The only problem is people like you and pal666 shitting up the forums and turning threads into a holy crusade against Nvidia. I would still have that problem even if I had bought an AMD card...

This is not an informed decision, just a stupid one

If I was an AMD fanboy, it would be. I'm not that blindly loyal to any corporation though.