NVIDIA Continues Discussing Their Controversial Wayland Plans With Developers

[pal666]

"linux" is generic, ubuntu will use mir and is linux, the xorg distro are linux, maybe wayland never happens

linux is generic, so your proprietary windows shit has to support linux in general, not some arbitrary subset of it. just like mesa supports linux in general. btw, mir will die as all other ubuntu-only projects, while wayland is already used in production for long time

[blackiwid]

Ehhem, what is wrong with using EGL? And if this won't be mainlined, wouldn't it be easy to implement an extension/plugin package named something like "wayland-nvidia" or "wayland-EGL" or something that simply adds support for Nvidia's chosen approach? Also wasn't open source software about more "developer and user freedom" to begin with? Nvidia clearly thinks this is the way to do things, who are we to tell them "No, you're not allowed to do it this way." when we constantly blather about "freedom" in Linux and the open source world? Are we hypocrites now?

I think the kernel has a similar policy, they add no stuff that only is used by a proprietary driver. So the new amd kernel module is used by the free and the proprietary driver so they add it.

I think this here is similar, if a free driver will use it (that could be easily done if nvidia helps nouvou guys to make use of it if that even would make sense what I doubt), much of the design how they implement stuff is to trick the gpl so its technicaly not violated (or to not violate it depending on how you see it).

And its only rational, if you make a project opensource, and a company makes a special driver that needs work on your side to support it, and not only the initial support, you have to maintain that, you have a bigger code base, you cant even answer to bugs because its impossible to track down bugs on code you cant see so you have to reverse engineer kind of.

It gets completly retarded in any way.

the point is you have more work and YOU get nothing for it. You have all the work and cost and nvidia all the benefits... thats a loose loose deal. And it hurts actualy the other wayland users, cause they have to waste much time with that bigger code base, where they could invest in a better general support.

[cj.wijtmans]

As i am reading it nvidias way seems to be a more efficient way. So let them prove it. I trust nvidia devs more, they know more about these things.

[stqn]

Why does wayland require some special hackery to display a few rectangular windows on the screen?

[Daktyl198]

As i am reading it nvidias way seems to be a more efficient way. So let them prove it. I trust nvidia devs more, they know more about these things.

No preferences here but... you "trust" the Nvidia devs more? More than the guys with decades of experience in working with display stacks?

[eddielinux]

"linux" is generic, ubuntu will use mir and is linux, the xorg distro are linux, maybe wayland never happens

if amd give the path I'll ditch my nvidia card without think twice

[rob11311]

I don't understand why they did not have this discussion a year ago. NVIDIA unveiled their plans and Wayland developers discussed it afterwards saying that they don't see it as a good way to implement Wayland support:

https://lists.freedesktop.org/archiv...il/021011.html
After that everything went quiet for a year. NVIDIA should have picked up the discussion and maybe today we could actually use their driver with more than a patched version of Weston.

Well actually taking part in the open source community would be too easy wouldn't it?
Nivida, want a marketing advantage of their secret sauce .. not just be yet another driver implementatio on a par with Intel/AMD & others

[rob11311]

Nvidia isn't implementing a design meant for nvidia. They simply don't like the current method of doing things.

Total BULL!!! Nvidia had ample opportunity to help design suitable general memory management for graphics, instead it has for years and years, been a totally intransigent PITA!! This was due to a perceived short term advantage, due to the general love for Nvidia's OpenGL drivers under Linux.
The smart move in graphics was going to KMS which caused Nvidia blob issues.. now they're coming late to party, wanting proprietary extensions so there's NO STANDARD!

End users, need a decent standard, so the hardware is commodity items and there's less worries about driver compatabilites, hence Vulkan good.. Nvidia only EGL extensions EVIL!!

[rob11311]

Nvidia need to pass extra information between the EGL/wayland client bit and the compositor bit so that things can be organised optimally in the graphics card, and they couldn't see how to do that in the current framework. It looks like they're having a reasonably productive discussion though, so hopefully it'll be sorted out.

This just sounds like an example of the layering mistake anti-pattern to me.
The Wayland client, is meant to be doing the rendering.. it ought to be pretty simple then for the driver.. No nasty tricks.. no shader replacement & optimisations.. no need for applications to trick the driver to thinking it's a different program so it actually works...

[rob11311]

"linux" is generic, ubuntu will use mir and is linux, the xorg distro are linux, maybe wayland never happens

Don't kid yourself!! Wayland is happening.. just look at efforts & consideration Fedora are making to make it the distro default!