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NVIDIA, Mentor Graphics May Harm GCC

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  • tarceri
    replied
    Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
    Hmm... it's very early morning here so I may be missing something, but can someone explain to me how OpenACC will 'force multiple closed source dependencies' on GCC?

    PTX is not 'closed source', it's an undocumented instruction set, however if OpenACC were to be supported in GCC, and it's done through intermediary PTX code generation, how would that possibly be part of GCC without being documented by it's open source implementation ? (it has to be open source to be included in GCC to begin with)
    Parallel Thread Execution (PTX) is a pseudo-assembly language. The graphics driver contains a compiler which translates the PTX into a binary code which can be run on the processing cores.

    So yes the PTX compiler is a closed source implementation. Sure GCC would have the open source code to generate PTX but then it has a dependency on the closed source driver to compiler it.

    Originally posted by XorEaxEax View Post
    Of course, if this has been about LLVM getting OpenACC support, Michael would have spun this story into something super-positive. Also when LLVM got a PTX backend from NVidia there was no talk from Michael about how 'LLVM is being sold to NVidia', instead it was described as 'new possibilities are opened up'.
    The point is GCC is a free software foundation project LLVM isnt. Whether you believe in the principles of the foundation or not it is a big deal for a FSF project to become reliant on non-free software no matter how small that reliance may be.

    Originally posted by johnc View Post
    Let's cut the crap and be honest with ourselves for a second. You tried to throw nvidia under the bus here and based on what information? Hearsay that, in the end, is of no real consequence anyway. Unless you can better explain this evil that nvidia is potentially inflicting on the world...?

    I believe the word you used was............ "poisonous".

    Poisonous, how? Because NVIDIA is paying a third party to put OpenACC compiler support for their GPUs into GCC?

    Did your contact mention for exactly how much "Mentor Graphics is selling GCC to NVIDIA"?

    ...Maybe I'm confused here but I thought GCC was an entity owned by the FSF and they were free to make their own decisions...
    You are choosing to ignore or belittle the issue because you do not share the same values. Adding support to a FSF project that relies on non-free software may not matter to you but it should matter to the FSF and it should be brought to Nvidias attention. I believe this is what was being referred to as poisonous, once you give in and loosen your values its hard to say no to the next thing that comes along and wants to restrict how free your software is.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnc
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael View Post
    thanks, especially when people think I would put out a pointless article just after receiving a lot of great hardware from nvidia...
    Let's cut the crap and be honest with ourselves for a second. You tried to throw nvidia under the bus here and based on what information? Hearsay that, in the end, is of no real consequence anyway. Unless you can better explain this evil that nvidia is potentially inflicting on the world...?

    I believe the word you used was............ "poisonous".

    Poisonous, how? Because NVIDIA is paying a third party to put OpenACC compiler support for their GPUs into GCC?

    Did your contact mention for exactly how much "Mentor Graphics is selling GCC to NVIDIA"?

    ...Maybe I'm confused here but I thought GCC was an entity owned by the FSF and they were free to make their own decisions...

    Leave a comment:


  • Imroy
    replied
    Obvious troll is obvious.

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael
    replied
    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    I'm not trying to be a suck-up, but you'd think by now readers here either know when to take something with a grain of salt or know that you have yet damage your credibility. I've been visiting this website just about every day for several years and I got to say, a lot of the community here is pointlessly negative. I'm not sure what it takes to get more credibility, but I think getting the Source Engine benchmarks will help.
    thanks, especially when people think I would put out a pointless article just after receiving a lot of great hardware from nvidia...

    Leave a comment:


  • johnc
    replied
    Originally posted by tarceri View Post
    I know you are just trying to troll as per usual but I will answer as if you were making a serious comment. It's pretty clear from the post that the worry is gcc will be relying an underlying proprietary closed source system which gcc has no control over. This type of arrangement pretty much always ends up screwing over the open system sometime in the future, undocumented futures, unfixable bugs, totally dropping the assembly language from the binary driver in favour of some new wizz bad thing are just some things that pop to mind that could be a concern to gcc relying on this.
    I'm not sure why you think this is such a concern. Are the maintainers of GCC not capable of including and excluding as they wish?

    Leave a comment:


  • schmidtbag
    replied
    Originally posted by Michael View Post
    If the information pans out not to be true I will gladly out this source, but he has always been spot on and his work has also sponsored many projects/developers, etc. but anyhow all information has been correct in this article about NVIDIA and it's ISA.
    I'm not trying to be a suck-up, but you'd think by now readers here either know when to take something with a grain of salt or know that you have yet damage your credibility. I've been visiting this website just about every day for several years and I got to say, a lot of the community here is pointlessly negative. I'm not sure what it takes to get more credibility, but I think getting the Source Engine benchmarks will help.

    Leave a comment:


  • XorEaxEax
    replied
    Hmm... it's very early morning here so I may be missing something, but can someone explain to me how OpenACC will 'force multiple closed source dependencies' on GCC?

    PTX is not 'closed source', it's an undocumented instruction set, however if OpenACC were to be supported in GCC, and it's done through intermediary PTX code generation, how would that possibly be part of GCC without being documented by it's open source implementation ? (it has to be open source to be included in GCC to begin with)

    Of course, if this has been about LLVM getting OpenACC support, Michael would have spun this story into something super-positive. Also when LLVM got a PTX backend from NVidia there was no talk from Michael about how 'LLVM is being sold to NVidia', instead it was described as 'new possibilities are opened up'.

    Now it somehow turned into 'Mentor Graphics sells GCC to NVidia', even if the above 'rumour' about PTX is true, how on earth is GCC 'sold to NVidia'?

    GCC is not going to become dependant on OpenACC either way, it's an option like openmp. You do not have to use it. And again, unless the OpenACC implementation, including whatever intermediate code it end up generating, is not fully open sourced it won't be part of GCC.

    So what are these multiple closed source dependencies Michael?

    Leave a comment:


  • Michael
    replied
    If the information pans out not to be true I will gladly out this source, but he has always been spot on and his work has also sponsored many projects/developers, etc. but anyhow all information has been correct in this article about NVIDIA and it's ISA.

    Leave a comment:


  • stiiixy
    replied
    Originally posted by tarceri View Post
    Well its much better then any of the childish comments you have made so far.
    Hear, here!

    The greatest irony is his conception that open-source poeple dont work hard and that nVidia does. Classic. It's as if free labour after work hours (unless you're paid to work on open-stuffs) is less than worthless, and people doing the exact same thing on closed-stuffs are a race unto themselves. Mmmm, I can smell their rosy turds from here.

    Delish!

    Leave a comment:


  • tarceri
    replied
    Originally posted by GT220 View Post
    That's all the Linux retard community can do, post useless reaction images and defending poorly written open source drivers.
    Well its much better then any of the childish comments you have made so far.

    Leave a comment:

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