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  • #91
    Again, we are talking about what kind of patents deanjo?

    LMFAO, Uh huh, look at the cost of those licenses. Google has their cash cow in Ads and Intel makes it's money off it's hardware and proprietary licenses.
    It doesn't matter if these companies have and other ways to make money. No serious company will sacrifice even 5% of their revenue and their time to opensource model if it was not a viable investment. Since there are commercially succesful opensource products out there, that proves that it is not pure theory.

    No the fact that you bitch about group A cutting off avenues of uses but group B does does the same thing just through different means.
    I still don't understand you. How the hell we cut avenues to others since we offer everything we have for free, while they give us just an executable and that only if we can afford the price?

    Quite the opposite. I want my code to benefit EVERYONE. What they do with it I leave up to them to decide. If they want to make changes and keep it to themselves, that's fine with me, if they want to release their changes, that's fine with me. My contribution remains for everybody to use, what they do with their contribution is for them to decide.
    Heh see? You said twice that is fine with YOU. No my friend that's not enough since it does not benefit me. They will take the code and will base more code on it which they'll close it leaving me in the darkness. How on earth is that beneficial to everyone? On the opposite, I give my code as GPL and I ensure that even my grandchildren will find it open and free. That's beneficial to everyone deanjo. Yours is just a kind and romantic movement while mine has eternal value since they can use it in every way they like along with the derivatives with the only limit to keep it free. Maybe you dislike the word limit but as I have told you in a similar controversy, freedom has limits. The freedom you had proposed without any kind of limit was just anarchy.

    I've written software over the years using the various licenses proprietary, opensource, and truly free PD. They all have their uses and places. I'm not one to dictate what what license it is unless the project is 100% completely my own and in that case I will put it out as PD if I decide to release it to the wild where everybody who wants can use it however they wish with zero forced obligation. If I'm writing for a employer or hired to do custom code I'll put it under whatever license they want given that it does not infringe on existing licenses restrictions.
    Nice and cool. PD indeed has a strong air of freedom and ofcourse I prefer it over any proprietary license and it would work in a world where nobody would like to create proprietary code. But in such a world (the world of elves as I have told you again) licenses wouldn't have a place at all. Unfortunately, here we have to protect our freedom if we do not want to lose it at all. So if GPL (and the other compatible licenses) can ensure that with the only obligation to keep free whatever we create, then that's a sacrifice that I can take easily.

    I never said you were a fascist, I pointed out though how the idealism of fascism has more in line with open source organizations then a entity such as nVidia where it practices capitalism more then anything else.
    There are a lot of ways to practice capitalism deanjo and these ways can be fascistic as well. In theory I could for example have slaves (if the law permitted that) and practice capitalism with them since they would work on the land I own and sell their elbow grease for my own and only own benefit. That, while capitalistic, is simultaneously and fascistic. Different things, don't confuse them.
    Now you have failed to explain me why the open source organizations are fascistic. Because we disagree with the closed source models? Because GPL does not permit them to put their non-free code in the kernel? Hmmm so the democracy is fascistic because it doesn't allow the fascists to practice their fascistic beliefs...
    Also, yes you did say that I am a fascist. Since I belong to the opensource crowd which has in line with fascism then I can not see how I'm not inclined to fascism as well...

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Apopas View Post
      Again, we are talking about what kind of patents deanjo?
      You did not specify, you said:

      Heh, I live in a country where patents do not exist... in a whole continent actually free of patents. THAT'S reality deanjo, no the illusion that the whole world is America. There are still free people out there you know...
      It doesn't matter if these companies have and other ways to make money. No serious company will sacrifice even 5% of their revenue and their time to opensource model if it was not a viable investment. Since there are commercially succesful opensource products out there, that proves that it is not pure theory.
      I never said there wasn't successful opensource companies. You are however trumping up companies that have been successful by their closed source solutions. Unlike you calling me one.

      I still don't understand you. How the hell we cut avenues to others since we offer everything we have for free,
      So nVidia has not contibuted to open standards as well? Have they not also got projects such as vdpau which EVERYONE is free to implement in their drivers?

      while they give us just an executable and that only if we can afford the price?
      Last time I checked that executable was free.

      Heh see? You said twice that is fine with YOU. No my friend that's not enough since it does not benefit me.
      So your in it for your own greedy purposes. Ya that sounds real community like.

      They will take the code and will base more code on it which they'll close it leaving me in the darkness. How on earth is that beneficial to everyone?
      You didn't write the changes so the changes are not yours to begin with.

      On the opposite, I give my code as GPL and I ensure that even my grandchildren will find it open and free. That's beneficial to everyone deanjo.
      In a PD situation my code is still free.

      Yours is just a kind and romantic movement while mine has eternal value since they can use it in every way they like along with the derivatives with the only limit to keep it free. Maybe you dislike the word limit but as I have told you in a similar controversy, freedom has limits. The freedom you had proposed without any kind of limit was just anarchy.


      Nice and cool. PD indeed has a strong air of freedom and ofcourse I prefer it over any proprietary license and it would work in a world where nobody would like to create proprietary code. But in such a world (the world of elves as I have told you again) licenses wouldn't have a place at all. Unfortunately, here we have to protect our freedom if we do not want to lose it at all. So if GPL (and the other compatible licenses) can ensure that with the only obligation to keep free whatever we create, then that's a sacrifice that I can take easily.
      SQLite proves you wrong. The PD model does work and has done so for decades.

      There are a lot of ways to practice capitalism deanjo and these ways can be fascistic as well. In theory I could for example have slaves (if the law permitted that) and practice capitalism with them since they would work on the land I own and sell their elbow grease for my own and only own benefit. That, while capitalistic, is simultaneously and fascistic. Different things, don't confuse them.
      In theory, you could have opensource code written the same way. Your point?

      Now you have failed to explain me why the open source organizations are fascistic. Because we disagree with the closed source models? Because GPL does not permit them to put their non-free code in the kernel? Hmmm so the democracy is fascistic because it doesn't allow the fascists to practice their fascistic beliefs...
      Refer back to this post for parallels.



      Also, yes you did say that I am a fascist.Since I belong to the opensource crowd which has in line with fascism then I can not see how I'm not inclined to fascism as well...
      No I didn't dammit, although I did point out point out parallels but it you that is calling yourself one because you fall into those parallels.

      Comment


      • #93
        In fact the only person that has called another a fascist is you.

        Originally posted by Apopas View Post
        You are fascist deanjo, you and your alike who get the education the ancestors offer you, you close it and packet it giving back nothing and leave noone to learn from it as if you gained your abilities magically outside from this world and thus you owe nothing and you believe thst you have the right to do so... and all these in the name of the very model you have based this paranoia!

        Comment


        • #94
          Got my 460 last week and i have to say this is the best experience i have had with linux in a long time, my previous experience with ATI cards have been terrible. Now with nvidia everything just works and the performance is great.

          Open drivers or not, nvidia's drivers are awesome compared to the ones ATI have delivered.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by deanjo View Post
            You did not specify, you said:

            I never said there wasn't successful opensource companies. You are however trumping up companies that have been successful by their closed source solutions. Unlike you calling me one.
            Oooohhh I mean software patents ofcourseI That's what we are talking about here deanjo! I even said "So copyright in general and software patents are one and the same?". Well if you want to play instead of clarify the conversation just forget it...

            So nVidia has not contibuted to open standards as well? Have they not also got projects such as vdpau which EVERYONE is free to implement in their drivers?
            What Nvidia has to do now? I didn't even use them as an example. Anyway, I appreciate that libvdpau is free as I don't appreciate that other projects are not. Your point?
            But I don't understand. Who said that Free software is some kind of godlike forgiveness and if someone writes 1 free line of code and 1000 proprietary then he should get an award from FSF?

            Last time I checked that executable was free.
            Nice and good but again I didn't even mentioned them.

            So your in it for your own greedy purposes. Ya that sounds real community like.
            You said everyone. If your everyone separate people and doesn't include me then I'll pass. Just the next time try to be more elucidatory...

            You didn't write the changes so the changes are not yours to begin with.
            Heh the very reason of the existence of the proprietary licenses eh? Hehehe I see...

            In a PD situation my code is still free.
            In a GPL situation my code plus the derivatives are free as well. Even better result.

            SQLite proves you wrong. The PD model does work and has done so for decades.
            One example of PD is enough to prove while GPL will need some thousands to do so huh?

            In theory, you could have opensource code written the same way. Your point?
            Obviously you do! I just say that you just can not compare capitalism with faschism because are totally different things is the same as if you say "thing A is better than thing B because A is red and B is soft..." completely irrelevant things!

            Refer back to this post for parallels.

            http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=72
            Still can not find similarities. Not at all...

            No I didn't dammit, although I did point out point out parallels but it you that is calling yourself one because you fall into those parallels.
            So despite the opensource crowd is inlined to faschim and has a lot of similarities, they are not faschists at all... whatever...

            In fact the only person that has called another a fascist is you.
            Yup I didn't deny it and I explained why. Just if free software advocates has a lot of similarities with fashcism then the proprietary advocates are simply the epitome of faschism.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by Apopas View Post

              What Nvidia has to do now? I didn't even use them as an example. Anyway, I appreciate that libvdpau is free as I don't appreciate that other projects are not. Your point?
              But I don't understand. Who said that Free software is some kind of godlike forgiveness and if someone writes 1 free line of code and 1000 proprietary then he should get an award from FSF?

              Nice and good but again I didn't even mentioned them.
              LMFAO, maybe you should read the forum title then.

              You said everyone. If your everyone separate people and doesn't include me then I'll pass. Just the next time try to be more elucidatory...
              LMFAO again, everyone INCLUDES people of different views and application. There is no such thing as a selective everyone.

              Heh the very reason of the existence of the proprietary licenses eh? Hehehe I see...
              That is just one of the many reasons for a proprietary license. But hey FSF even wants the copyright as well no matter who wrote it.

              In a GPL situation my code plus the derivatives are free as well. Even better result.
              In your code you practice limited freedom to those who must follow your dogma.


              One example of PD is enough to prove while GPL will need some thousands to do so huh?
              LMFAO, that is just one example with many many many more examples. Hell the net developed off a PD effort, CERN HTTPd, then there are other examples such as qmail, djbdns, dlmalloc, etc etc etc.

              Obviously you do! I just say that you just can not compare capitalism with faschism because are totally different things is the same as if you say "thing A is better than thing B because A is red and B is soft..." completely irrelevant things!
              LMFAO again, can't compare capitalism and fascism? Fascism is being used a disambiguation or did nVidia all of a sudden become a political movement?

              Still can not find similarities. Not at all...
              Then your kool-aid has already kicked in pretty hard I guess.

              So despite the opensource crowd is inlined to faschim and has a lot of similarities, they are not faschists at all... whatever...
              This might surprise you but every ideology overlaps with others. Some very minutely and others to a greater extent.

              Yup I didn't deny it and I explained why.
              And very wrong.

              Just if free software advocates has a lot of similarities with fashcism then the proprietary advocates are simply the epitome of faschism.
              Proprietary is hardly the epitome of fascism. It's quite the opposite as proprietary respects the rights of the creator on their individual basis. This goes against the very basis of fascism.

              BTW please note the correct spelling of fascism.

              Comment


              • #97
                Banning nazis may be good sometimes. As recently with Russian Youtube page - nazi put a LOT of provoking videos on youtube, youtube refused to take them down and got massively firewalled. "For igniting hate between nations". Will hold most of stupid schoolars from the threat.

                -----
                On the topic, I think its way better to write 1 line of GPLed code than 100 (or so) of flame/troll wars. Srsly.

                Comment


                • #98
                  My opinion on 4xx - they are nice cards. Especially 460, very affordable.

                  But zero opensource, nvidia pushing its cuda and physx all over the place, cutting card capabilities (extra price for this) just to make a lower segment card(less value).

                  No, AMD. Only AMD. Sorry, no opensource - no buy.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                    Banning nazis may be good sometimes. As recently with Russian Youtube page - nazi put a LOT of provoking videos on youtube, youtube refused to take them down and got massively firewalled. "For igniting hate between nations". Will hold most of stupid schoolars from the threat.
                    That's politics. I'm not sure you can explain with such analogies. All that happened when there was talk about analogies with fascism previously in this thread was eventual mudslinging.

                    It's ironic, though, how we combat fascism with fascism, though. Just an observation.

                    When it comes to Nvidia with freedom, it's all about money so whether you want to use analogies or not, it's about profits and greed, imho. Very few companies are exempt or don't pursue this concept since it seems to be human nature. If there was some benefit to expand the open source side, they would, I think. But, for whatever reason, it's not policy. My useless two cents...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Panix View Post
                      That's politics. I'm not sure you can explain with such analogies. All that happened when there was talk about analogies with fascism previously in this thread was eventual mudslinging.

                      It's ironic, though, how we combat fascism with fascism, though. Just an observation.

                      When it comes to Nvidia with freedom, it's all about money so whether you want to use analogies or not, it's about profits and greed, imho. Very few companies are exempt or don't pursue this concept since it seems to be human nature. If there was some benefit to expand the open source side, they would, I think. But, for whatever reason, it's not policy. My useless two cents...
                      So, what do you think, would you "donate" 10% of price of your gfx card, when you buy it, so AMD team gets more financies? Register the card as primary used in linux? I think thats the only thing that may roll.

                      Comment

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