NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 On Linux

[smitty3268]

it's about respecting the rights of a individual or groups own properties

I'm not sure why you can equate a company with an individual but i can't equate it with a government. Oh well, like i said i don't think we actually disagree too much on this but you're just not willing to let it go, are you

[tball]

we have NOUVEAU driver, which, despite the lacking of documentation and official helps in any form, still outperform OSS Radeon both in terms of functionality and speed?.

Hmm. Can you show us a proof of that statement?

Right now I am using the radeon driver for my HD 4650 and couldn't be happier. I have opengl 2.1 support and powermanagement. Does these features exist for nouveau too?

Could be great if Michael would write an article comparing the radeon and nouveau oss driver. I think many folks in the linux community, would like something to rely on when buying a new gfx-card. At least the ones preferring oss-drivers.

[nanonyme]

Now considering that nvidia supports both open and closed standards that is hardly fascism. Fascism frowns upon individualism and nVidia has many individual properties as well as supporting the open standards.

Actually it's more like "we support and take advantage of your open standards and use our own closed standards which we will refuse to give anyone else the benefit of".
Go figure.

[nanonyme]

Actually the word support was exaggeration. They just take advantage of existing opensource code and rather replace it with closed code than contribute to making the opensource part better.

[Panix]

I'm not sure what good it is to compare the company approaches to political ideologies. I don't think you can pidgeonhole either Nvidia or ATI so simplistically. I don't think it would be accurate and be omitting certain specifics that need to be addressed.

It seems no one wants to examine the overall picture. Linux is free operating systems and most of them include non-free software. Who uses Linux without using ANY NON-FREE software at all? A show of hands? 'Thought so. So, can we at least admit that some of us grudgingly decide to use some non-free software sometimes? Let's then use this idea and apply it to graphics cards.

Nvidia and ATI are both guilty of orienting their support excessively to Windows. Both are tied to Microsoft. Their graphics cards can be expensive and appeal especially to a Windows market, a Windows gaming (and Workstation?) graphics market in particular. Even if the X Windows are different for the MS Windows and Linux systems, the fact remains these companies prioritize for Windows. But, one 'closed source company' at least engineers drivers to work at least 80% (or better) on features in the Linux side although it doesn't do much in the way of open source support. ATI, on the other hand, looks to not cover either although the open source has more attention compared to Nvidia. I read of the phrase, 'pick your poison' and it applies here but both poisons are not really a choice when Windows is king.

Maybe Linux users should become like the religious open source zealots and we should all just buy older, outdated ATI cards that are no more than $20 so we don't feel robbed of features and don't support these companies that won't endorse or support Linux enough? Um, oops... no one will do that. So, what do you want to do? Why not just try to convince these companies to add a bit more support so the Linux user can take advantage of the hardware they bought? What else can one do? The open source side of graphics cards and the associated companies are always going to be playing catch up and limiting features because of:
*manpower shortages / resources lacking
*licensing and copyright issues
*Windows influence

Unless one is willing to sacrifice features and willing to not have the same as in Windows, there will always be a demand to at least have a balance and this doesn't seem to be evident with the ATI group (exclude the zealots are seem content). If you want open source alternatives, one has to convince the computer world to endorse linux as a whole and convert Windows users or bring the Linux community more compensation. People are people and it seems the only incentive is ever money. However, one has to appreciate the free software and open source community perserverance since it would be easy to drop everything and go for some corporation. ATI and Nvidia are both profit-driven corporations and I don't care what political ideology you equate them with. They're both Windows-oriented and just have different ways of presenting that. Don't forget it.

[deanjo]

Actually the word support was exaggeration. They just take advantage of existing opensource code and rather replace it with closed code than contribute to making the opensource part better.

Well that's a bunch of BS as well as they are a major contributor to the open standards as well, they also have introduced API's such as vdpau, which is free for anybody to incorporate into their drivers. The only thing they don't do is release the code and specs for their products. If anyone is guilty of trying to "lock out" others it has been the open source crowd. Use KMS for example, it specifically was designed to lock out non-GPL drivers. So don't give me this BS about nvidia taking "advantage" of open source code when the opensource crowd is openly outright hostile to anybody that does not fall into their limited scope of ideology.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1662277&postcount=5

[Apopas]

If anyone is guilty of trying to "lock out" others it has been the open source crowd. Use KMS for example, it specifically was designed to lock out non-GPL drivers. So don't give me this BS about nvidia taking "advantage" of open source code when the opensource crowd is openly outright hostile to anybody that does not fall into their limited scope of ideology.

Bullshits and nonsense and maybe is the first time in these forums that I use such words. Like if you say that the laws that do not permit me to do WHATEVER I WANT, remove my freedom. Bullshits!

[deanjo]

Bullshits and nonsense and maybe is the first time in these forums that I use such words. Like if you say that the laws that do not permit me to do WHATEVER I WANT, remove my freedom. Bullshits!

Then you better start with doing away with any type of license and patents. Sadly in the real world of an economic driven society that won't ever become reality. Feel free to watch some old Star Trek episodes to fulfill your fantasies about a non-economic driven society. Laws do not allow you to do whatever you want, otherwise they wouldn't be laws now would they?

[Apopas]

Then you better start with doing away with any type of license and patents. Sadly in the real world of an economic driven society that won't ever become reality. Feel free to watch some old Star Trek episodes to fulfill your fantasies about a non-economic driven society. Laws do not allow you to do whatever you want, otherwise they wouldn't be laws now would they?

Heh, I live in a country where patents do not exist... in a whole continent actually free of patents. THAT'S reality deanjo, no the illusion that the whole world is America. There are still free people out there you know...
Now about that non-economic driven society... what the hell has to do that with the fact that you call us fascists?
First, I have told you before that every society was, is and will be economic-driven. The open source model is economically viable. If not then maybe Google, Intel, AMD, Nokia and dozens of other companies are full of illusionists... or maybe you believe that one and only one model can be economically viable because it happens to have the lion's part in a specific period!
But again what that has to do with us being fascists? Because we play clearly and openly and we offer everything for free means we are obligated to open our house to everyone? You are fascist deanjo, you and your alike who get the education the ancestors offer you, you close it and packet it giving back nothing and leave noone to learn from it as if you gained your abilities magically outside from this world and thus you owe nothing and you believe thst you have the right to do so... and all these in the name of the very model you have based this paranoia!
If we are fascists deanjo then you are what? Destroyers? Murderers? Or just uber selfish and scrooges? What? My english suddenly seems to be very poor to characterize you!

[deanjo]

Heh, I live in a country where patents do not exist... in a whole continent actually free of patents. THAT'S reality deanjo, no the illusion that the whole world is America. There are still free people out there you know...

Uhhuh that's why Greece has the Organization of Industrial Property right?

Now about that non-economic driven society... what the hell has to do that with the fact that you call us fascists?
First, I have told you before that every society was, is and will be economic-driven. The open source model is economically viable. If not then maybe Google, Intel, AMD, Nokia and dozens of other companies are full of illusionists... or maybe you believe that one and only one model can be economically viable because it happens to have the lion's part in a specific period!

LMFAO, ya Google, Intel, AMD, and Nokia make shitloads off opensource.... right. Keep dreaming. You would be lucky if it accounted for 1% of their revenue.

But again what that has to do with us being fascists? Because we play clearly and openly and we offer everything for free means we are obligated to open our house to everyone?

So you bitch about someone else closing off avenues for your use? That's called being a hypocrite.

You are fascist deanjo, you and your alike who get the education the ancestors offer you, you close it and packet it giving back nothing and leave noone to learn from it as if you gained your abilities magically outside from this world and thus you owe nothing and you believe thst you have the right to do so... and all these in the name of the very model you have based this paranoia!

Bullshit, my own code goes PD where everybody can use it of their own free will if they want. That is my choice. I also develop stuff just for me, that is my prerogative. I also help develop GPL stuff for my employer, that is his prerogative. No one philosophy is the "best" as every situation is different.

If we are fascists deanjo then you are what? Destroyers? Murderers? Or just uber selfish and scrooges? What? My english suddenly seems to be very poor to characterize you!

What am I? I'm a person that does not look at a situation with one myopic view and isn't dumb or naive enough to think there is only one solution to any question. I do not try to force my beliefs on others. I do not restrict use on the products I produce when I see fit because no matter how much you dislike it that is my right and my prerogative. It's not my fault you fail to grasp what fascism is.

Well