NVIDIA Shares Wayland Driver Roadmap, Encourages Vulkan Wayland Compositors

[oiaohm]

I would argue the least programming skill to make a functional indie game is to use existing engine that hides all the difficulty from you and allows you to allocate time to more important things.

When you game idea does not fit well into the existing engines where are you going to go. Yes I agree the easy route is use existing engine if you can. But we do see even now indie games coming out new with their own custom Opengl game engines because like it or not this is the easy route if existing game engine does not work.

This is why I said particularly look at indie games that have their own game engine. For a game jam a person did code a Opengl Game engine for a simple game in 48 hours. Yes 100 percent from nothing,

This does cause a problem. If all the indie developers using existing game engines or making opengl game engines where are new game engines going to come from using Vulkan and the like. There is a long term circling the drain problem here. You will get game engines made by limited parties getting that big that they start giving list of requirements to game developers how their game has to be.

There is a very big problem that will happen if game engine development remains too hard. We have already seen some of the signs of this.

[oiaohm]

Pretty obvious, opengl is old and bloated, does not fit modern hardware design.

Some of opengl bloat never fitted hardware design. Sections of opengl was design to make person making application with it life simpler. Vulkan and Direct X 12 are missing quality of life things for developers.

[caligula]

This is not true. You need to start looking at the indie games particularly indie games with their own game engine.

https://github.com/LeoSery/FrostEngine--OpenGL-2024

You see like above people writing new opengl game engines all the time. Some of these appear in indie games because they are simple to code compared to other options.

There is a barrier to entry issue with DirectX 12 and Vulkan. Yes the explicit sync stuff. For a person attempting to make a basic game engine in under 48 hours of development time Opengl implicit sync is great.

You don't need to build a game engine to build a game. Seriously you just found a three man project with 121 commits (22-58 per person), 10 000 LOC, no issues, no stars, no CI/CD releases etc. Nobody knows about this project. You can't really prevent people from writing these. Even if 99.9% of the world used Vulkan, there would be new projects like these from ignorant fools.

[oiaohm]

You don't need to build a game engine to build a game. Seriously you just found a three man project with 121 commits (22-58 per person), 10 000 LOC, no issues, no stars, no CI/CD releases etc. Nobody knows about this project. You can't really prevent people from writing these. Even if 99.9% of the world used Vulkan, there would be new projects like these from ignorant fools.

https://github.com/hotstreams/limitless-engine

https://github.com/AntonioNoack/RemsEngine

https://github.com/AntonioNoack/JDirectX11

There is a long list of game engines that are small teams. Every major game engine started off this way. The reality when you look at indie games making game engines you are looking at the segment of the market were new game engines historically came from. Yes this year over 90% of indie game released with there own game engine the game engine was opengl only.

The entry level groups are not taking up Vulkan or Direct X 12 that is the way it is. So to play 2024 unique game engine indie titles you basically need opengl by some means.

This is a little more than a small number of ignorant fools. There is a issue with Vulkan/Direct X 12 learning curve.

[Rovano]

but the haswell ipgu does not have a proper vulkan implementation

I played a 3D game on an Ivy Bridge iGPU via Proton DX11.
Actually, I was surprised how it works against a dedicated card, beautifully smooth.
I wondered what I actually have a dedicated card for?

I remember years back that Intel iGPU was terrible.
But today it runs beautifully smoothly included old iGPU.

[woddy]

But who cares about games! The PC should be used for work, not for playing.
Buy yourself a console!
I'm not saying that games shouldn't be supported on PCs, I'm just saying that they are not the most important thing and they are not the center of the world, they are just games!

[Linneris]

Buy yourself a console!

I won't, out of principle. Consoles are antithetical to free software values by design. I'd rather have a computer that can run both work applications and games than a regular computer plus a computer-thing artificially gimped to be capable of nothing but playing overpriced vendor-locked games.

[ssokolow]

Did you try ydotool or wtype? https://github.com/atx/wtype
Potentially also https://git.sr.ht/~brocellous/wlrctl

Like I said, "the ad-hoc, incomplete nature of replacing xdotool and wmctrl".

For example, as someone who considers the incomplete support for KDE's reconnection/crash-recovery solution outside Qt 6 to be the biggest blocker, I wouldn't be able to use wlctrl because KWin isn't wlroots-based. I'd have to use kdotool instead, which works by generating what are essentially KWin plugins on the fly and then prompting KWin to load them.

[ssokolow]

But who cares about games! The PC should be used for work, not for playing.
Buy yourself a console!
I'm not saying that games shouldn't be supported on PCs, I'm just saying that they are not the most important thing and they are not the center of the world, they are just games!

You've got it backwards. Buy yourself a PC so you can run all your console games on the same commodity hardware, using open-source software as a longevity-preserving porting layer.

(Literally. The only console games I buy are for consoles old enough that I can emulate them if I dump them.)

[woddy]

You've got it backwards. Buy yourself a PC so you can run all your console games on the same commodity hardware, using open-source software as a longevity-preserving porting layer.

(Literally. The only console games I buy are for consoles old enough that I can emulate them if I dump them.)

I just wanted to say, games are not the center of the world. They are just games, there are more important things.