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NVIDIA 545.29.02 Linux Driver Released With Much Better Wayland Support

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  • #41
    Originally posted by caligula View Post

    Not for those who use Geforce 700 series or older (excluding GTX 745/750). There are still many who use GT 710 or 730.
    Nouveau works very well for those cards however. With experimental re-clocking support.

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    • #42
      Just FYI there were actually four driver releases not just this one because of a security issue revealed yesterday,

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      • #43
        Originally posted by aviallon View Post

        Nouveau works very well for those cards however. With experimental re-clocking support.

        Let me put these words into perspective. One could say that Nouveau is suitable for old cards. With newer cards the need to manually switch frequencies if at all possible.​ Signing the drivers throws another stick under its feet. And how is consumption? It also does not work with newer cards VDPAU or Vulkan. However, I was surprised with my card line how some things finally moved in the feature support table.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by pong View Post

          I thought about getting a NV7xx card for a display on an IGPU-less host but IIRC none could even drive a 4k 30/60 Hz HDMI/DP display or two so it was a non-starter for me.

          I'd like a basic single slot cheap GPU that does 4kx60 dual monitor output and has basic modern architecture GL/CL/DX graphics & compute so I could use it for host or pass-through but apparently I've got to aim higher than the GF7x. The ARC3/5 or maybe some of the RX6xxx cards or RTX3050/60 could work but some of those get rather big / expensive.
          Consider that this series of NV cards doesn't support VP9 and HEVC codec as well except for some rare exception (750 based on GM206 chip). I'm not sure about hardware acceleration guaranteed by current Linux Oses graphical stack, even if wayland should assure a better compatibility in terms of frame buffer.

          Problems are not NVidia drivers on their own, but the necessity for Linux Oses compositors, rendering, graphical stack in general and programs to switch to Vulkan abandoning OpenGL because and in favor of Explicit sync in order to take benefit from it. This improvement would make Linux Oses mature, efficient and quicker reducing the complexity as well. Fewer variables, more simple management. So after Xorg it's imperative to deprecate Opengl moving all the stuff to Vulkan. In this context NVidia drivers and cards are the best experience for Linux.
          Last edited by MorrisS.; 03 November 2023, 06:58 PM.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by babali View Post
            How many times have we seen "much better wayland support"? But this time, maybe it finally good!
            Exactly this! But when things still don't work as expected for die-hard nvidia users, then we hear them typically accusing wayland again. Because how can a trillion dollar corporation not be able to achieve wayland compliance, right? It is always the fault of wine, vkd3d or wayland etc to them. This is really ridiculous just as the wait for nvidia is. Even over ten years old iGPUs from the competition run better on wayland than nvidia gpus with their closed drivers. It is about time that we see nvidia seriously sticking to an over 10 years old linux standard. They will need another couple of years i guess, if they ever are serious about the transition in the first place.

            But even when they do you always have to wait weeks or even months until their mediocrely debugged drivers get released for new kernel versions. This is a major drawback for people in need of running brand new software. Sorry i can not recommend that garbage to any people in my surroundings. The only hope is nouveau and nvk. But expect a lot of water running down the river until they can be called a viable alternative. Mesa RADV and ANV took years to be where they stand now.

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            • #46
              I gave the new beta a shot and the situation is still pretty sad, even though it is a little better. Sway still cannot be used without disabling hw cursor, ot the mouse pointer is invisible. KDE kind of works, but there are some minor glitches in plasma shell, as always. Horrible issues with frame synchronization when going below 60 fps (on a 60Hz screen) see https://streamable.com/9k3pmm

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              • #47
                Originally posted by pong View Post
                Well NV has some pretty fine developer tools e.g. CUDA, though proprietary, at least they run on almost any GPU they've made in the past 15 or whatever years
                with programmable shader support. Yes I would have rather seen an open standard (openCL, SYCL, OPENACC, something well multi-vendor supported). But given when they started and the relative lack of competition at least they did something free-as-in-beer to get/use and which works well. We probably wouldn't have a lot of the HPC/AIML stuff we have today to the extent we have it if it wasn't for NV/CUDA.

                Also unexpectedly it seems like there are unexpected limitations showing with other CL languages & GPU vendors e.g. OpenCL / Intel 4GBy Intel memory allocation limits vs. NV's "unified/heterogeneous memory", AMD's persistent lack of good launch-day/month/year ROCm support for consumer GPUs, Intel's good/bad OSS support.

                Intel has on the one hand a decent starter DGPU line, decent basic OSS LINUX driver support, but incredibly just does stupid stuff on top of that like
                a MS Windows control panel that couldn't even control the fans (at least in the first many months' versions), OSS documentation for many of the graphic aspects of their DGPUs but not (AFAICT) a SHRED of documentation on some of the most basic utilitarian things to enable LINUX use -- control the fans, monitor the temperatures / voltages / clocks, control the LEDs, control the power limit, support the ASPM/PM functions so the GPU doesn't sit "almost idle" 98% of the time drawing 41W when if the ASPM / power management worked (i.e. there was a CLI tool or at least the documentation to write an OSS one) it'd take well under 20W sitting at the desktop in many cases.

                So it's no party having NV because it's too closed in driver / documentation / code / OSS support to have highly functionall OSS at this time. But given their new-ish open kernel modules and published documentation of some tools / APIs I wonder if actually one would theoretically be able to have a better functional free-beer + free OSS "support" system for NV GPUs that actually is equal to or better than what Intel / AMD has now. It doesn't matter if nouveau is years behind the amount of refactoring / support needed to take advantage of all the information / code / tools they do have access to for Ampere, Lovelace, et. al.

                AMD could maybe be almost perfect for LINUX if they'd supply ROCm support, any needed missing support for control / monitoring (clocks / power / fans / video CODEC / whatever may not be published / OSS).

                And they are ALL horrible AFAICT wrt. stuff that should be essential for a DGPU -- SR-IOV & guest VM compute / graphics support; ZERO in MSWIN & LINUX both.

                In a way I think apple / mac has a better "solution" architecturally -- M1-M2-M3 with "unified memory" and very wide RAM buses with high memory bandwidth options so the DRAM bus actually ends up in the high end models with GPU-like memory bandwidth and then unified CPU memory with GPU memory so one doesn't have to use ONLY GPU resources for HPC compute but one can also use CPU resources competitively with what the GPU can add in. Of course NOTHING is open / oss there, tragically.

                In reality we've got to stop relying on TOYS (gaming GPUs) for the foundation of modern desktop PC compute / graphics. AMD/INTEL/ARM/RISC-V or whoever needs to support a high bandwidth wide V/RAM BUS going into standard desktop processors with the processors having an open ISA and multi-cores so one can have a more true open and also architecturally unified / distributed approach to GPU / compute / graphics / HPC.

                Back in 2008 when i decided to make Linux Ubuntu my daily driver i had to choose between letting go of gaming (lack of good support for gaming in Linux back then) or keep using Windows which i hated. I decided to go all Linux.

                So asking a lot from a GPU in Linux wasn't even that much anymore. Simply day to day tasks to have some normal representations of windows..display server that works fine and the most i was asking for was wobbly windows/Cube with compiz and hardware accelerations for playing some x264 videos. In about 15 years i always still had the necessary issues with Nvidia drivers. Dont get me wrong i dont blame the Nvidia developers for it but the useless management. Because they decide what to support and what not. We can see it in the open source world. Very often the quality products that have been developed is just awesome. Majority of the time closed source applications are a joke compare to the OSS alternative.

                I am glad that we have the choice to choose AMD at least to be able to not experience those issue.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by M.Bahr View Post

                  Exactly this! But when things still don't work as expected for die-hard nvidia users, then we hear them typically accusing wayland again. Because how can a trillion dollar corporation not be able to achieve wayland compliance, right? It is always the fault of wine, vkd3d or wayland etc to them. This is really ridiculous just as the wait for nvidia is. Even over ten years old iGPUs from the competition run better on wayland than nvidia gpus with their closed drivers. It is about time that we see nvidia seriously sticking to an over 10 years old linux standard. They will need another couple of years i guess, if they ever are serious about the transition in the first place.

                  But even when they do you always have to wait weeks or even months until their mediocrely debugged drivers get released for new kernel versions. This is a major drawback for people in need of running brand new software. Sorry i can not recommend that garbage to any people in my surroundings. The only hope is nouveau and nvk. But expect a lot of water running down the river until they can be called a viable alternative. Mesa RADV and ANV took years to be where they stand now.
                  Isn't AMD worth over a billion dollars? Possibly, in the neighborhood of over 180 billion?!? They're worth this much but they can't do anything about their lack of features for fan control, voltage regulation, hdmi 2.1, Compute support, using more than one monitor or display, power during video playback etc. etc.? Seriously, AMD?!? LOL!
                  Too many AMD fanboys on here?

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Panix View Post

                    Isn't AMD worth over a billion dollars? Possibly, in the neighborhood of over 180 billion?!? They're worth this much but they can't do anything about their lack of features for fan control, voltage regulation, hdmi 2.1, Compute support, using more than one monitor or display, power during video playback etc. etc.? Seriously, AMD?!? LOL!
                    Too many AMD fanboys on here?
                    By those prejudices you have just exposed, that you didn't use modern amd gpus for a long time. Most of the points are not true except for compute at the moment and hdmi 2.1. But guess what, this is not even a disadvantage as it turned out, that hdmi cables got mostly bad signal quality in comparison to display port cables, which are preferred by more experienced users than you obviously. Also software support for compute is improving. But of what use is a high end nvidia gpu with nvidia's drivers for linux, when they often perform worse than on winblows? Thank you nvidia for contributing to a bad reputation of linux due to your garbage drivers.: https://youtu.be/iJsUcVOmZAY
                    But don't worry i am not going to convince you. Just throw more of your money into nvidia's throat, because ...

                    Ngreedia, the way it's meant to be paid!
                    Last edited by M.Bahr; 03 November 2023, 10:59 AM.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by M.Bahr View Post

                      By those prejudices you have just exposed, that you didn't use modern amd gpus for a long time. Most of the points are not true except for compute at the moment and hdmi 2.1. But guess what, this is not even a disadvantage as it turned out, that hdmi cables got mostly bad signal quality in comparison to display port cables, which are preferred by more experienced users than you obviously. Also software support for compute is improving. But of what use is a high end nvidia gpu with nvidia's drivers for linux, when they often perform worse than on winblows? Thank you nvidia for contributing to a bad reputation of linux due to your garbage drivers.: https://youtu.be/iJsUcVOmZAY
                      But don't worry i am not going to convince you. Just throw more of your money into nvidia's throat, because ...

                      Ngreedia, the way it's meant to be payed!
                      What does not work with Nvidia?
                      What does not work for years? Vaapi broke. The only thing was bothering me.​
                      At the moment, the default setting of acceleration in the Wayland browsers is not. I manually believe that it can be wound. What does not work further? I'm on lowlatency kernel 6.5 with an older Nvidia driver.​
                      Tip: I noticed that under Wayland (7Watts - Desktop PC) NVIDIA has better electric consumption than under X11(24W) currently on Kwin. In a number of drivers 545, a new power management will come. I'm curious about it.​
                      In Gnome, I think it has a small consumption in both.​

                      Doesn't AMD cards on Linux no longer lose anymore compared to Windows? Performance maybe?
                      Last edited by Rovano; 03 November 2023, 09:53 AM.

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