NVIDIA's List Of Known Wayland Issues From SLI To VDPAU, VR & More

[phoronix]

Phoronix: NVIDIA's List Of Known Wayland Issues From SLI To VDPAU, VR & More

With NVIDIA's recent R515 Linux driver beta that ushered in their new open-source GPU kernel driver in development, NVIDIA posted a list of their known Wayland implementation issues/shortcomings affecting users...

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-R515-Wayland-State

[MastaG]

Tomorrow's update will take care of them.

[birdie]

There was quite a heated discussion on opennet.ru.

Again, NVIDIA or not, take a look at WAYLAND PROTOCOL OR COMPOSITOR LIMITATIONS - that's the most damning piece.

[skeevy420]

That actually addresses some of AMD and Intel's issues with Wayland. Since NVIDIA GPUs dominate the market, hopefully NVIDIA taking Wayland seriously will result in better experiences for us all; an extra 487 headlines a year ending with And More Wayland Fixes.

[oiaohm]

There was quite a heated discussion on opennet.ru.

Again, NVIDIA or not, take a look at WAYLAND PROTOCOL OR COMPOSITOR LIMITATIONS - that's the most damning piece.

Not as bad as what you think. Lets look at it.

https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/wayland-information-for-r515-beta-release/214275

"WAYLAND PROTOCOL OR COMPOSITOR LIMITATIONS"

• The following workstation features are not supported by any Wayland compositors or the Wayland protocol. They will also likely require new EGL extensions or other means to expose the related hardware functionality.
  • SLI and Multi-GPU Mosaic
  • Frame Lock and Genlock
  • Swap Groups
  • Advanced display pipeline features including warp and blend, pixel shift, and emulated YUV420.
  • Stereo rendering

First point is this Wayland compositor or Wayland protocol problem? The answer is in fact no. Do note that Nvidia developer mentions here needs new EGL extensions. These all turn out to be limitations caused by using EGL.. SLI and Multi-GPU Mosaic have been Nvidia features as well so without Nvidia support those cannot be implemented.

There is no established public API through which Wayland compositors can power off video memory via RTD3.

Second point Is this a Wayland compositor problem. Again no. If in just terminal mode without X11 server loaded there is no way to turn of video memory by RTD3 either. This is a driver blackboxing problem. Remember eglstreams was meant to be workable without X11 server loaded. This RTD3 defect is Nvidia fault and lack of agreement with other GPU vendors.

Indirect GLX does not work with Xwayland because the Glamor rendering engine is not compatible with our EGL implementation.

Note here that this is Nvidia EGL implementation. The Intel and AMD version that in mesa does Indirect GLX just fine with Wayland so this is Nvidia issue.

Xwayland does not provide a suitable mechanism for our driver to synchronize application rendering with presentation, which can cause visual corruption in some circumstances.

This one is Nvidia EGL implementation. Intel and AMD have a few EGL extensions to do this that Nvidia does not implement that link to this problem yes part of fixing this is DMA BUF support then the extensions around it. Yes this is not supporting Glamor as well.

Display multiplexers (muxes) are typically used in laptops with both integrated and discrete GPUs to provide a direct connection between the discrete GPU and the built-in display (internal mux) or an external display (external mux). On X11, the display mux can be automatically switched when a full-screen application is running on the discrete GPU, enabling enhanced display features and improved performance, but no Wayland compositors currently support this functionality.

Due to not having a good Nvidia driver as pure Intel and AMD laptops don't have this. So there has been no hardware platform to test these features on due to Nvidia poor driver support by Wayland compositors. Do note they say on X11 what happens if user does not have X11 loaded and is wanting to run using eglstreams... This has been broken for quite some time.

Yes it comes just 1.

Hardware overlays cannot be used by GLX applications with Xwayland.

Fixing this most likely will not need Wayland protocol changes this will most likely be EGL extension and Xwayland fix. Nothing Wayland compositor has to worry about.

birdie the reality here is everything list here was not supported by Nvidia eglstreams either. This is not damning for Wayland protocol you need to read it a lot more carefully and pay attention to how much is Nvidia unique problems and how much of this list simple did not work right if you did not have X11 server loaded. Remember Nvidia said you could do stuff headless with eglstreams. Does this now explain why lot of Wayland compositor developers were going bugger supporting Nvidia as far too much was busted.

Yes KDE lead developer pushed the problem back on Nvidia developers as well because the problems are really Nvidia developers own caused issues that they have to fix since they have not been willing to provide firmware to open source drivers as well.

[ezst036]

What exactly is the Non-Nvidia current list of known missing functionality from Wayland?

If I try something using an Intel HD or AMD card, what works in X11 that doesn't in Wayland? What's left?

So its said, with Nvidia publishing this list themselves I think it means, or at least I hope it means, that they are planning on addressing it. That's big of them to start listening and providing support. I don't mean this sarcastically. There are plenty of Nvidia haters who will no doubt pop in here with their .02 cents, but I still want to think Nvidia is turning over a new leaf and if so they deserve to be taken at face value.

[xAlt7x]

There was quite a heated discussion on opennet.ru.

Any reason why you bring russian news resource here? It's the same article with a comment section of a regular [whiney] russian-speaking users.

[birdie]

Any reason why you bring russian resource here?

Maybe because I know for a fact that Linux is a lot more popular in Russia than any other country of the world that I know.
Maybe because I'm a fucking Russian. Yeah, unfortunately, such scum here on Phoronix.
Maybe because there are lots of Russians here as well.
Maybe because people often leave a lot more comments on that website.
Maybe because some will find it interesting.

[birdie]

Didn't expect anything else from oiaohm. Again, Linux and Wayland are perfect and NVIDIA is making stuff up.

Wayland (and its compositors) is nowhere near close to what Android, Windows, MacOS and iOS offer bug again, not Wayland's problems. Oh, wait, no screen tearing (or maybe not)! and it's secure (or maybe not)! And it certainly supports HDR! Oh, wait. A victory!

Let's have this conversation again a decade later.

[Setif]

I want to hear those who criticized Canonical when It decided to default to X11 with Nvidia.
They claimed that Wayland+Nvidia is stable and production-ready.
Q: Do you these issues mentioned in the article or not.