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NVIDIA Doesn't Expect To Have Linux 5.9 Driver Support For Another Month

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  • #81
    Originally posted by birdie View Post

    This statement is so asinine I've just got no words. Does NVIDIA force anyone to buy their GPUs for fuck's sake? Their drivers have always been proprietary in case you haven't noticed. Does NVIDIA develop operating systems which limit your freedom? Damn, Open Source fanaticism really messes with people's heads. They cannot even think rationally any longer.
    I don't know, does Linux force them to develop that proprietary garbage? In case they haven't noticed Linux has always been GPL, might as well go waste somebody else's time. When you've got no words it's a good idea to shut up and avoid making a fool of yourself


    • #82
      Originally posted by birdie View Post
      Nice URL, so what? I've asked you to show me a single user/company in the world who's been hacked because they were using NVIDIA drivers. Any source for that? No? This URL is a waste of time. AMD has so what?
      The one I also pointed to back in 2012 was used by ransomware. As you follow the Nvidia security list forwards you find privilege exploits in Nvidia drivers used by ransomware before Nvidia patches them. We are not talking 1 or 2 examples here we are talking hundreds of thousands of companys effected by Nvidia issue.

      I pointed to a particular fault type in the Nvidia list about time you go and compare privilege exploit count on the AMD security list for Linux to the Nvidia one. There is a horrible trend here of a lot higher rate with Nvidia. There is a big reason why AMD privilege exploit rate is lower than Nvidia. Its really simple AMD since their kernel mode driver is GPLv2 they are using the linux kernel memory management and permission system so the possibility for miss alignment between the drivers memory management and the system memory management does not exist as it does for a out of tree driver. Sparse in the mainline Linux kenrel has a lot of features for detecting memory setups that will cause privilege exploits.

      Originally posted by birdie View Post
      Proofs about "don't work properly" or GTFO. I've been using NVIDIA GPUs with Linux since the late 90s. I don't recall "don't work properly" ever.
      So you ignore things like failed kernel updates or issues switching to TTY and back or vm pass though with desktop cards being a total pain in the ass.

      Originally posted by birdie View Post
      Small work in Blender in you're already an expert in computing and dare tell the company how to run their business? Have you heard that NVIDIA drivers have been consistently the best in the industry in terms of OpenGL support? No? What other revelations do you have based on your miniscule use case?
      Yes I have heard all that but when you are working on Linux all the time and you are like me and have more than 1 X11 server running and other things that work fine with AMD and Intel yet crash the system when using Nvidia. Yes Nvidia has great opengl conformance but when it comes to allow you to do what ever you want with your system its a problem.

      Think about this I might have 1 X11 server open with blender in it on a render farm job and another X11 server open where I am doing email and switching between them using 1 graphics card. This is where Nvidia poor intergration between their gpu memory management and the Linux kernel OS memory management comes issue over and over again.

      Originally posted by birdie View Post
      NVIDIA has literally hundreds of millions of GPUs in customers PCs in China. China has supercomputers with NVIDIA GPUs as well. China assembles most NVIDIA GPUs. No idea what you're talking about. Sorry, this whole paragraph sounds like complete mumbo-jumbo for me.
      In a recent decision that could have legal implications on the use of open-source software in China, the Beijing Intellectual Property Court (BIPC)…

      birdie there are many rulings in China that GPL is under contract law and how you are allowed legally in china to combine proprietary code with GPLv2. What the GPL condom implemented in 5.9 Linux kernel does is block something the law of china does not allow. We don't want someone taking Nvidia to court and getting the court to rule they are in breach. Please note the ruling is the right to use any of the GPL work. Since FABs in china use Linux they can be forced legally not todo business with Nvidia if this goes to court. So if Nvidia issue is with the 5.9 GPL condom code this is something Nvidia needs to fix before way worse happens.

      Yes sometimes Linux kernel developers can be a jackass. Other times like the GPL condom code its forcing parties to correct stuff that is technically illegal in many countries and if prosecuted will cause effected parties very big problems. Yes being stuck on 5.8 Linux kernel with a technically illegal driver while Nvidia is forced to sort it out is better than having the case that Nvidia is taken to court the driver is ruled illegal and the court throwing down injunction preventing Nvidia cards coming from China or Nvidia using the Linux kernel anywhere world wide to fix it. Yes China ruling on GPL licenses you breach the terms and require it taken to court you loss the right to use the GPL work for at least 5 years.

      birdie basically we don't want the courts of china involved its way better of the Linux kernel developers with the GPL condom stuff just code in a block so the issue has to be fixed before parties can be pulled before the courts and all hell breaks loss. This is a case if you like Nvidia you should be on the Linux kernel developers side forcing this problem fixed so courts don't get involved.


      • #83
        Originally posted by Charlie68 View Post
        So why does this problem only affect Nvidia? If it were as you say, it should be about any proprietary driver or module, but it isn't! There is no problem with AMD GPU-PRO driver at least that I know of or with wifi driver etc.
        Only Nvidia ?
        The AMD driver stack uses an upstream open-source kernel and open source userspace with optional proprietary userspace components. All (or at least most of the) discussion here is about proprietary kernel drivers, and fglrx was the first and last ATI/AMD Linux driver to have that.

        Originally posted by zexelon View Post
        The "GPL condom" incident was also actually caused by Facebook just for those who attached Nvidia to it in their mind. Facebook supplied the patch and it was equally gray to the ATI proprietary driver in the end.
        The difference is that the "ATI proprietary driver" (fglrx) was replaced years ago with the amdgpu stack, using an upstream & open source kernel driver.
        Test signature


        • #84
          Originally posted by birdie View Post

          You've confused me with someone else here. I vote for modesty and humbleness - absolute most Linux/Open Source fans here are self-entitled assholes who absolutely love to demand and at the same time they do absolutely nothing for Open Source. Me, on the other hand? I've been helping various Open Source projects for over two decades now. I've helped resolve multiple critical bugs in the Linux kernel and multiple other Open Source projects. I've been using Linux longer than some of the commentators here have lived.

          So, please, kindly fuck off.
          Thank's for reinforcing the point.


          • #85
            Originally posted by tildearrow View Post

            He's not a moron.
            He is. He's also sick and it was proven many times.

            I'm not using "semi broken KDE". I am using proper KDE and even on the default setup it fails to serve:
            Well, that was my point. I really like KDE and I was using it for years, but I gave up. They broke KDE 4 which was very good in the end.

            Furthermore I am not using "NVIDIA proprietary crap". I am using an AMD card, and even so it fails to serve at times:

            1. I am STUCK on Mesa 19.0, because a bug has been introduced in 19.1 which makes your card hang after a while when using FFmpeg/kmsgrab or darmstadt to record the screen. Claimed to be fixed but when I tried out Mesa 19.3.3 the bug STILL WAS THERE! Unacceptable. I want to work. I have NO time to debug the driver.
            2. Even AMDGPU-PRO itself is unstable. My card hung a few times when using it.
            3. The ROCm compute stack is slow, because it wants to "take breaks" when computing.
            4. No proper GPU reset mechanism. If the card goes down for some reason there is no way you can gracefully reset the card without rebooting (losing all your work).
            5. Since Mesa 19.0/Linux 5.0 the GPU clock control is broken, preferring the core clock before the memory clock, which wastes energy.
            6. Since FFmpeg 4.3 it is IMPOSSIBLE to record the screen using VA-API. You are forced to use the .ts or .mp4 format, otherwise it will refuse to record. What kind of disaster is this in where the freaking muxer CARES about the driver?! Just accept the damn H.264/H.265 stream already AND MUX IT TO MKV!! Don't judge me over it!!!
            I'm sorry then. I thought you once said you have nvidia card. My experience with AMD is very good, but I own rx 480 which is quite old. I had many nvidia cards and I still have one in the laptop and the experience is far from optimal. What's funny it's better under Linux than Windows 10.


            • #86
              Originally posted by cjcox View Post
              I don't think that anyone is suggesting that Nvidia MUST convert to the GPL. The suggestion is that they'll be better off if they did.
              Reading all the shit that's being posted here by people who are just kids trying to suck on free software as militantly as possible, because they haven't yet learned to handle their testosterone and sugar levels, hence will they always act like raging monkeys, and it makes me only shake my head in disgust. Nothing one can do about these morons but to ignore them.

              But you seem a bit smarter than the rest of these morons, so I say this, there is more than just the GPL. There are many more free licenses with a non-militant stance such as the Apache License, which allow for more freedom. Maybe you'll get it and understand why I think the GPL is a sad license and that it has better ones, but the morons won't. They're fucked in the head and cannot be fixed. In short, one simply cannot expect to dictate what others should and shouldn't do, when one doesn't want it for oneself. Only idiots do. The GPL sadly is a license written by such an idiot. The GPL was a knee-jerk response by tree-hugging communist hippies who are mentally still living in the 70's, trying to fight the closed source monopoly of capitalism. We're living in better times now and need to move on from either shit. There is room for all of it and not just one or the other.
              Last edited by sdack; 18 October 2020, 08:15 AM.


              • #87
                Originally posted by geearf View Post

                Yeah most likely, but it'd be nice.
                It might not be possible because of the signed firmware mentioned before though. :/
                Other GPL-driver supported hardware has signed firmware as well. It is usually distributed separately, even though it is required for those drivers to function.


                • #88
                  Originally posted by carewolf View Post

                  Other GPL-driver supported hardware has signed firmware as well. It is usually distributed separately, even though it is required for those drivers to function.
                  Oh that's great. Thank you!


                  • #89
                    linux desktop have no future with this politics


                    • #90
                      Originally posted by tilde
                      Come on, he is being honest. Linux is not ready for the desktop, and we have to agree.
                      In what sense is it not ready? In many ways it is simpler to use than the competition. Outside of specialized proprietary software made for professionals with no open-source equivalents, it seems to have covered all the important ground.

                      It blows my mind that I can even play games made for Windows in Linux and have them function the same. (with lower network latency even)