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NVIDIA's Graphics Driver Will Run Into Problems With Linux 5.3 On IBM POWER

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Aeder View Post

    RX 5700's performance is perfectly competitive with the RTX 2060 and in some cases with the RTX 2060 Super (Both released in 2019, with only the original 2060 being in the same $349 price bracket).

    RX5700 XT's performance is mostly superior to RTX 2060 Super (Both go for $399) and can sometimes punch above its weight and win against the RTX 2070 Super ($500 card)

    Even on Linux, they fall in their expected place, but just above the competition.

    Now if you're arguing those cards should beat the cards Nvidia has in the $600-$1000 range, while costing only $400 at most, then you are retarded.
    *snort* The reason the RX5700XT sells for $400 is because nobody would pay more for it. AMD's latest, topmost-tier card competes with Nvidia's 3rd or 4th tier depending on how you count. They didn't stop making cards that could compete with Nvidia's top tier because they didn't want to make them, they stopped because they no longer could make them.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Michael View Post

      Many of the world's most powerful super-computers at the moment are NVIDIA+POWER9.
      Sounds like they have the money and resources to find a solution so the kernel devs don't have to bail them out.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by nivedita View Post

        *snort* The reason the RX5700XT sells for $400 is because nobody would pay more for it. AMD's latest, topmost-tier card competes with Nvidia's 3rd or 4th tier depending on how you count. They didn't stop making cards that could compete with Nvidia's top tier because they didn't want to make them, they stopped because they no longer could make them.
        We're talking about HPC (Power9+/Nvidia), here.
        So you have to compare with MI50/60/ (100 soon). Maybe Radeon VII. Compute NOT gfx.

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        • #34
          What did Linus say about not breaking userspace?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
            To Everyone:
            My apologies for this essay of a reply.



            Capitalism chooses one way and one way only -- the path of least resistance for the maximum amount of profit. Look into American history before regulations were forced upon our businesses. Child labor, being paid in company cash that could only be spent in the company town and company stores, massive deforestation and wildlife killed off and the same monocultural forests of profit trees were replanted (we just have a bigger and more diverse country that hides this but I drive past it all the time because I live in Weyerhaeuser territory..that's a logging company..), we've created ecological disasters with poorly placed dams that kill off salmon populations, we waste massive amounts of water to farm deserts, we fought a war with ourselves because half the country considered it perfectly fine to keep slaves for more profits...unchecked Capitalism isn't a good thing and regulations and laws are necessary.

            Capitalistic feedback doesn't necessarily work in a modern, global economy. There is no way to give that kind of feedback with food. Pepsi vs Coke and AMD vs Nvidia isn't the same as not buying produce because you disagree with jungle deforestation in Brazil for more farmland. You can't just quit using computers because you disagree with tech companies using cheap, foreign labor. There is no tech company you can buy from because you don't like the land destruction caused by the mining of rare earth elements in China. A vote with a wallet only goes so far nor does it even matter in some industries.

            We're, in America at least, currently under threat of another problem of Capitalism -- collusion and shell companies/vertical integration. Very few people realize how one company owns 20 companies that own 100 other companies leading to one company being in control of the gas you buy, the food you eat, the programming you watch, the websites you visit...you think you're rebelling and buying a different brand of noodles without realizing that Brand A and Brand B are both owned by Company A that's owned by shell company A. Some companies, like Walmart, get so big that they can force other companies into exclusive positions and contracts, wait a few years until Walmart is their sole customer, and then use that to leverage the company into "better" deals...because if they don't accept the new contract, they'll likely go under. It makes me sad because all of that and recent deregulations makes me feel like we've lost so much progress from the regulations that the horrible monopolistic business practices of Carnegie, Rockefeller, and Morgan caused.

            Government control can be good or bad. No one (sane) would argue that 5 year old children should work with heavy equipment and explosives in the mines; but they did until regulations and laws said the couldn't. No one (sane) would argue that information and knowledge should be a privilege; and yet we don't have Net Neutrality. No one (sane) would argue that genocide is OK; but it happened until regulations and laws said otherwise (look into Native American history...my country has a fucked up past). Changes for the good come from the passion of the people and democracy; war or oppression are the other choices.

            Democracy helps, but even it can only help so far. Women aren't even considered equal to men in America. The way our laws and Constitution were written, men are considered superior to women in a court of law. We only needed one more state to ratify that amendment to make women equal. Change for the better in a democracy only happens if people care about others and actually give a shit. Apparently a lot of us are constipated and unable to give that shit anymore. A country doesn't vote a person who "grabs them by the pussy" President if they care and give a shit.

            There is no one good way when following pure ideology. Pure ideology has always turned into pure evil in modern history. Pure Capitalism was slave labor and genocide. Pure Socialism was slave labor and genocide. Pure Communism was slave labor and genocide. The only Pure Democracy was pirates on their boats. It wasn't until we started mixing ideologies and making regulations that life started to improve for the average person. A blend of all the ideologies; regulations aimed at keeping people safe, educated, and healthy; regulations aimed at keeping the land and world healthy; regulations that prevent the hoarding of knowledge & technology; voting and democracy so people have a voice, a strong constitution that protects the people; that's what we should want to strive towards.

            I almost didn't post this due to how off-topic this is becoming because of my odd sense of humor and how I see parallels between unrelated things.

            torsionbar28 -- I'm sorry that you're unable to see a parallel between Communism and its "for the people" stance with Open Source development that shares with the community and Capitalism and its "pure profit at the expense of everything else" stance with Closed Source development that doesn't share back with the community. I though that parallel was kind of obvious. The fact that they're Green like money and Red like a scare then becomes funny.
            Without land destruction, how much you think that IT technology can cost you? There is no company, because you don't buy computer two or three times more expensive because of it. Nobody do that. But you can buy computer from companies who recycle part of their products, like Apple their iPhone (I don't know who else).

            You regulate capitalism, regulation destruct small companies, kill concurency and then big corporation create collusion and shell companies/vertical integration problem. And you saing that is capitalism problem? No, thats problem created with your regulation. It's unintended side effect of regulation. Why you think Monsanto is tha big "evil" corporation? Nobody else can't survive regulation! Monsanto have more lawyers and only they can survive your regulation. Monopol can't survive in long term without goverment help.

            The more regulation, the unintended the side effects will be worse and worse, and you will blame capitalism for what your ideology created.

            "You can't just quit using computers because you disagree with tech companies using cheap, foreign labor" Why quit? buy System76. What i know they buld it in US. They buy most of components, but if you support them they can have more resources and produce more.

            Pure Socialism is pure Comunism. We lived in that hell.

            US OpenSource is pure capitalism. Corporations which can't afford development of OS sharing their resources and all of them benefits from that. They share resources voluntarily. Socialism is when they shere it because regulation. Who's holding the gun at the redhat's head? Where is your regulation?I see only capitalism.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by nuetzel View Post

              We're talking about HPC (Power9+/Nvidia), here.
              So you have to compare with MI50/60/ (100 soon). Maybe Radeon VII. Compute NOT gfx.
              Actually I was responding to a comment claiming that Nvidia makes "awful GPUs" and I'm positive that commentor wasn't talking about about a POWER9+Nvidia supercomputer.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by nivedita View Post

                Actually I was responding to a comment claiming that Nvidia makes "awful GPUs" and I'm positive that commentor wasn't talking about about a POWER9+Nvidia supercomputer.
                Also if you want to talk compute the MI60 is 18m or so behind the Tesla V100 for the same FP32 performance.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Ipkh View Post
                  It matters not whether there is in- tree use or not. You just don't remove interfaces from the kernel without notice. The normal routine used to be a year or so notice of planned deprecation/obsolescence.
                  NPU DMA has been out of alignment with Linux kernel rules for 10 years now.

                  Last year Linux kernel developer conference put this code on final notice. So these interfaces disappearing are not disappearing without notice.

                  NPU DMA to test it you need the following Nvidia firmware for card, Nvidia driver to file up card. At this point you are in trouble.

                  NPU DMA will not work power cpu to power cpu. To test you have to talk to the Nvidia GPU that with in kernel tree parts you cannot fire up and run test cases against to make sure NPU DMA in fact works. This has lead to kernels being released where NPU DMA has been broken that passes the in Linux kernel tree test suite.

                  Basically by now enough firmware and light functional driver should have been submitted to the kernel so the NPU DMA could be testing in normal kernel build processes.

                  Maybe Nvidia thought they had enough market share that they could straight up ignore the notice of future removal last year and do nothing. I totally agree with the kernel maintainers here Nvidia has been given more than enough warning over the NPU DMA code. To re enter kernel this time they should put up enough firmware and a test driver at least so it can be tested for functionally using mainline parts.

                  The reality here nothing should be in the mainline Linux kernel without the means of using Linux kernel hosted firmware and drivers to test it out. Please note I said test it out not have it 100 percent feature complete.

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                  • #39
                    I hate to say this but your perspective is highly screwed and frankly delusional. Capitalism doesn’t mean you can’t give back in the way you want. In fact business literally donate billions every year to worthy causes. Further many business are as far from greed based as is possible, many pursue their craft of trade because they love it. I knew one guy that made millions every year in a machine shop he owned, paid his employees well too. Just because there are bad examples we should not paint every business as evil.

                    In this case just because NVidia has a different approach to business it doesn’t make them inherently evil. Frankly it makes about as much sense as saying classical music is pure and something like country & western is evil. Capitalism actually needs the push and pull of alternative approaches. That is why free markets (with In reason) are so important as it alllws NVidia to follow its own path while AMD does something entirely different.

                    Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

                    Pure, unregulated Capitalism...that's exactly how it works. That's why so many people consider it and greed to be the root of all evil.

                    Loggers don't replace trees unless explicitly told to (regulations). Strip miners don't restore the land they screw over unless regulated to do so. Fish industries will wipe entire species out unless regulated otherwise. Cars pollute and pollute and pollute unless regulated not to. The only time any of those groups share their methods and technology is when regulations force them.

                    (American) Capitalism is essentially "fuck you, I'm gonna get mine; dammit, those regulations are taking my profits". Using others and their technology without giving back is all part of the game. That includes anyone from Nvidia using the work of kernel developers with minimal to no contributions back to a shitty job that pays the minimal wage with no benefits -- both are guilty of doing the bare minimum to maximize profits at the expense of others.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by hax0r View Post
                      What did Linus say about not breaking userspace?
                      This has to be the least-informed post in this thread, congratulations.

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