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NVIDIA Kepler Mainline Driver Support Nears Retirement, Starting With Notebook GPUs

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  • #21
    Originally posted by Weasel View Post
    And that's still longer support than almost all LTS distros (except Ubuntu 18.04).
    That is actually pretty funny. I actually feel the claims of LTS are dubious. I have had my time with ubuntu studio 16.04 and it was ok while it lasted for me as long as it did, bugs warts and all. I'm not going to knock it. Really appreciating rolling release stuff right now and am surprised at how well it does.
    Last edited by creative; 03-10-2019, 01:39 AM.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by creative View Post

      I don't feel there is anything wrong with legacy drivers especially considering that they keep your card usable and able to game with.

      I am just hoping my gtx 1070 lives as long as your 780ti, like not die on me. I hope I have as good luck with it as I had with my gts 450 fermi.
      I had a PNY 9800gt that just decided to croak on me for no reason, that is when I had to buy the gts 450.
      Running a 1050ti now on the Linux machine and 1060 on the Windows 10 laptop. Yes, there is nothing wrong with legacy drivers. To be honest, I don't really care for Linux updates to begin with. My Arch Linux machine has a recent 4.14.xxx kernel and 410.xxx nvidia driver but everything else is out of date since late 2017/early 2018.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        Probably a hint that Linux ecosystem isn't supposed to be used like that.
        Like what? People are whining that a GPU has more support than a distro, when swapping hardware is easier than updating software and reconfiguring everything. (unless you're broke as hell)

        So if there's anything to blame here, it's "the Linux way" (including breaking ABI for drivers every so often, see Hibbelharry's post).

        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        Still, you forgot RHEL/CentOS.
        Yeah, I forgot about server distros.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Weasel View Post
          Like what?
          Like (pre Win10) Windows.
          People are whining that a GPU has more support than a distro, when swapping hardware is easier than updating software and reconfiguring everything. (unless you're broke as hell)
          Rolling release or short (1-year) per release with painless upgrades (i.e. not like Ubuntu's upgrades where shit reliably breaks) is the sweet spot for Linux ecosystem if you want the best desktop experience.

          This idea that you need a long time LTS makes no sense on Linux, opensource application developers will be targeting modern or relatively new library versions, you will kill yourself backporting all the software in the repos if your core libraries are too old. Which is why LTS distros have old software in the repos, or select only some of the most important software to backport.

          The only place where a LTS makes sense on Linux is for servers, where you don't want to upgrade your payload application and the only thing you need are some security updates.

          So if there's anything to blame here, it's "the Linux way" (including breaking ABI for drivers every so often).
          Opensource kernel designed around opensource in-tree drivers that are updated by whoever decides to change the ABI (i.e. at no additional maintenance cost for the original developer), and also opensource display server doing the same breaks proprietary out-of-tree driver of company that can't even be arsed to provide redistributable firmware for their cards so that a bunch of developers could develop a opensource driver for them for free. More news at 20:00.

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          • #25
            I am still using a friends old GTX 770. It is still working surprisingly well for its age. Looking forward to upgrading to an AMD card one of these days though.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
              The only place where a LTS makes sense on Linux is for servers, where you don't want to upgrade your payload application and the only thing you need are some security updates.
              Actually no I don't want to upgrade my payload application on the desktop either (unless it's my choice to do so, given my own circumstances and time), and anyone who does actual productivity on their desktop most likely doesn't either. But of course I know it's your field and so obviously the only production grade systems you know of are servers (that run Linux).

              The point is that buying a new card that is as good as an old card is dirt cheap (e.g. you buy the lowest tier new card since it will outperform your old card anyway) and requires no reconfiguration since it's usually automatic. While software upgrades tend to change your god damn workflow or user experience. And that costs precious time.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Weasel View Post
                Actually no I don't want to upgrade my payload application on the desktop either
                Actually no, you don't want changes to workflow or experience, this isn't a thing in most opensource applications.
                But you keep treating Linux ecosystem as if it was Windows.

                But of course I know it's your field and so obviously the only production grade systems you know of are servers (that run Linux).
                Actually I think I already said multiple times that I'm mostly working on Windows servers, but I'm not surprised that you don't even fucking read what I answer you.
                Small and medium-sized companies rarely use Linux as they need a GUI and only barely know how to operate Windows.

                The point is that buying a new card that is as good as an old card is dirt cheap (e.g. you buy the lowest tier new card since it will outperform your old card anyway) and requires no reconfiguration since it's usually automatic. While software upgrades tend to change your god damn workflow or user experience. And that costs precious time.
                Really I'm sick and tired of you blindly treating Linux ecosystem as if it was Windows. Are you actually even using Linux at all or are you typing your posts from Internet Explorer?

                There is no "change to my goddamn workflow or user experience" happening in any opensource applications. In most cases they don't revamp the UI (= change the goddamn workflow or user experience) for the sake of looking "new" and selling the new version that has exactly the same functionality as the old one.

                I see what you are complaining about in shit applications on Windows that i HAVE to use for other reasons (can't interface with certain hardware without some client application), the goddamn Microsoft Office (where the 2016 version has a completely different UI (not just the ribbons) for NO FUCKING REASON AT ALL, now it auto-selects the whole page's text whenever the fuck it wants, which is bad, and for some reason EXCEL CAN'T AUTO-DETECT csv FILES ON OPEN, and I HAVE TO USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION TO FIND HOW TO DO THAT, unlike older versions) or the shit supreme that is Adobe PDF reader application, that each year becomes more wow, wow, w-o-w.

                Meanwhile if I fire up LibreOffice it has the exact same UI and behviour it had back in the stone age when it was still called OpenOffice. And Calc still auto-detects csv files on open. And Dolphin looks exactly the same as it always did (different icon theme or top bar theme isn't a noteworthy change), they didn't suddenly hide shit like with Windows 7 Explorer menu bar or whatever.
                Krita? GIMP? The same.

                The application that changed the most is Firefox, when they dropped the old plugin ecosystem. But it's still a far cry from anything proprietary that needs to do a restyling each year.
                Last edited by starshipeleven; 03-11-2019, 01:07 PM.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by Weasel View Post
                  Actually no I don't want to upgrade my payload application on the desktop either (unless it's my choice to do so, given my own circumstances and time), and anyone who does actual productivity on their desktop most likely doesn't either. But of course I know it's your field and so obviously the only production grade systems you know of are servers (that run Linux).
                  Use buggy desktop software then.

                  Originally posted by Weasel View Post
                  The point is that buying a new card that is as good as an old card is dirt cheap (e.g. you buy the lowest tier new card since it will outperform your old card anyway) and requires no reconfiguration since it's usually automatic. While software upgrades tend to change your god damn workflow or user experience. And that costs precious time.
                  It is other way, used gtx 750ti is faster and cheaper than a new gt 1030. NVidia is very good at this, changes just product names and the performance is the same. Another example of this is GT440 and GT730.



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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                    Actually no, you don't want changes to workflow or experience, this isn't a thing in most opensource applications.
                    But you keep treating Linux ecosystem as if it was Windows.
                    Dude I updated Thunderbird on a LTS distro and it changed the layout completely (also gtk2->gtk3, using different theme, etc). I don't live in your fantasy land and theoretical imagination when I know it happens in my REAL USE case.

                    And I'm on a LTS distro!!!!

                    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                    Really I'm sick and tired of you blindly treating Linux ecosystem as if it was Windows. Are you actually even using Linux at all or are you typing your posts from Internet Explorer?

                    There is no "change to my goddamn workflow or user experience" happening in any opensource applications.
                    I don't think you understand what "any" means. See above.

                    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                    I see what you are complaining about in shit applications on Windows that i HAVE to use for other reasons (can't interface with certain hardware without some client application), the goddamn Microsoft Office (where the 2016 version has a completely different UI (not just the ribbons) for NO FUCKING REASON AT ALL, now it auto-selects the whole page's text whenever the fuck it wants, which is bad, and for some reason EXCEL CAN'T AUTO-DETECT csv FILES ON OPEN, and I HAVE TO USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION TO FIND HOW TO DO THAT, unlike older versions) or the shit supreme that is Adobe PDF reader application, that each year becomes more wow, wow, w-o-w.
                    Yeah, 100% agreed here.

                    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                    Meanwhile if I fire up LibreOffice it has the exact same UI and behviour it had back in the stone age when it was still called OpenOffice. And Calc still auto-detects csv files on open. And Dolphin looks exactly the same as it always did (different icon theme or top bar theme isn't a noteworthy change), they didn't suddenly hide shit like with Windows 7 Explorer menu bar or whatever.
                    And WinRAR just removed support for ACE archives due to a security exploit and obviously if it was a Linux app it would be updated immediately for "security reasons" and then what if my workflow relied on ACE archives? Let's assume for the sake of this example that it is a Linux app.

                    And here's the kicker: I can use updated WinRAR to open shady archives I download from the net, while I keep around old WinRAR for opening ace archives. Can't do that with package manager, because oh... the old version is pulled out from the repo completely. Such a great way, right? Giving users no choice.

                    (no, it doesn't, I know, but what if it did, this is just an analogy please don't take it literally)

                    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                    The application that changed the most is Firefox, when they dropped the old plugin ecosystem. But it's still a far cry from anything proprietary that needs to do a restyling each year.
                    True that, but the point is that I want to run proprietary apps on Linux (well most aren't available natively, but you get it). Trust me, if people did port them they would pull off the exact same shit as on Windows, except here it would be forced upgrades.

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                    • #30
                      It seems as though many of you missed the fact that this is MOBILE Kepler and not DESKTOP Kepler that is being put out to pasture. The desktop GPU will keep support for some time, possibly a few more years, as there are many Kepler cards still in use, whereas the mobile version is going to be in laptop hardware that is at EOL anyway, due to wear and tear and lack of replacement parts.

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