10 Reasons Linux Gamers Might Want To Pass On The NVIDIA RTX 20 Series

[Weasel]

nomadewolf : Just add the graphics-drivers PPA and then you can install whatever version you want with a small delay on a new release (1 week at most). I wasn't blaming the AMD drivers themselves but the fact people like it when it comes "bundled" with the kernel, which is also a disadvantage.

I did get corrected that you can update them without updating the kernel, as Tomin said, but I'm clarifying my initial point: updating multiple stuff at once leads to multiple points of failure than just one.

[nomadewolf]

That must be why AMD's drivers haven't been updated in years, since they're just so perfect. Oh wait no.

If you read Phoronix, you know that AMD has their own openSource drivers, as well community openSource drivers that both get updated several times a year...

So what was the point of your comment again? "I don't need it so it's not a problem for me", cool story.

My point is (and i am guessing here) but the vast majority of users will not need it, simply because it works, and they just wont bother.

I don't think I've ever said that AMD drivers can brick your system. Since, as you said, any driver can do that. I was talking about the rest of the kernel.

If you update the entire kernel, chances that something bricks, and not necessarily the AMD drivers, is much higher than if you update just one component. I don't know why I feel like I'm stating the extreme obvious.

No you did not say AMD drivers can bick systems.
What you did try to pass was the idea that by using NVidia you avoid problems that you'd otherwise encounter when using NVidia GPUs.

At least in the distros i know and use (Mint and Ubuntu), Nvidia drivers are easy to install, only if you use the OS tools. But you end up not being able to update the drivers also...
You can try to update the drivers manually, but you're subject to the same issues that you encounter with AMD dirvers. I tried.

About kernel updates, i did use to update the kernels in the past. Not that i needed, but i liked to mess with my system... Back then, there were crashes, but those were rare. I find it hard to believe that things got worse instead of better, but i don't really have current data on that.

Bottom line, i don't really see what you get more/better with nvidia that you don't get with amd, when you follow the same logic.
You're stuck with the same drivers unless you go out of your way to direct download from their site.
There's a high change you'll brick your installation if you install drivers that are not provided by the OS.
And you'll have to go trough a lot of work and even having to install a different kernel to get things to work.

Don't get me wrong, AMD is generally harder.
But NVidia is not Click-install either.

[Weasel]

That's the thing: i never needed to update the drivers, it just works.

That must be why AMD's drivers haven't been updated in years, since they're just so perfect. Oh wait no.

So what was the point of your comment again? "I don't need it so it's not a problem for me", cool story.

What i find intriguing is how people are so willing to disregard one company's major flaws, while completely hammering down another company's minor flaws (in comparison) mercilessly...

I don't think I've ever said that AMD drivers can brick your system. Since, as you said, any driver can do that. I was talking about the rest of the kernel.

If you update the entire kernel, chances that something bricks, and not necessarily the AMD drivers, is much higher than if you update just one component. I don't know why I feel like I'm stating the extreme obvious.

[nomadewolf]

Oh really? Try updating the driver without updating the entire kernel, then. Maybe I want better drivers for a new feature or performance, without risk of bricking something else in the process, who would've thought, right?

And please don't come up with bullshit like how kernel updates don't break your system if they're on stable branch. I once had network access completely bricked after an update on a stable branch and had to revert. So driver update would have been delayed due to a completely unrelated thing. Since I use Nvidia, though, no problemo there.

That's the thing: i never needed to update the drivers, it just works.
And i find it hard to believe that the driver refresh that you get every six months isn't more than enough for most users.

Kernel updates do brick systems. Every change you make can brick your system. I've had nvidia drivers brick my system... Hell, there are nvidia drivers that brick nvidia cards...

https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/nvidia-pulls-geforce-driver-reportedly-bricking-cards

Sometimes, they don't even wait for the drivers, they go straight for the hardware:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-g84-g86-chips-overheating,6121.html

And about the famous nvidia driver quality:

https://gizmodo.com/373076/nvidia-responsible-for-nearly-30-of-vista-crashes-in-2007

Bottom line, you'll find issues everywhere you look. It's a part of life. Nothing is perfect.
What i find intriguing is how people are so willing to disregard one company's major flaws, while completely hammering down another company's minor flaws (in comparison) mercilessly...

[Tomin]

Oh really? Try updating the driver without updating the entire kernel, then. Maybe I want better drivers for a new feature or performance, without risk of bricking something else in the process, who would've thought, right?

You can update Mesa without updating kernel driver. You can also update the kernel driver with AMDGPU package from Radeon website if you need it and you don't need to update the whole kernel. I'm not totally sure how new versions of the kernel that package supports but at least what Ubuntu 18.04 currently has, which is fairly recent right now.

[Weasel]

Never had an issue and didn't have to install anything at all. It just works.

Oh really? Try updating the driver without updating the entire kernel, then. Maybe I want better drivers for a new feature or performance, without risk of bricking something else in the process, who would've thought, right?

And please don't come up with bullshit like how kernel updates don't break your system if they're on stable branch. I once had network access completely bricked after an update on a stable branch and had to revert. So driver update would have been delayed due to a completely unrelated thing. Since I use Nvidia, though, no problemo there.

[jacob]

There is no poor wayland support for nvidia. Its only KDE that is being stubborn. Secondly SLI has always been worthless. Theres a better way to use multiple cards.

Wayland support is next to nonexistent, but I would say support is poor overall. Blob drivers in general, and nvidia in particular, tend to break with every distro or kernel update, suspend/resume is chronically broken, kernel driver signature enforcement (an essential security feature) can't be used, etc. In short, I don't need 10 reasons to avoid it, just one: nvidia.

[nomadewolf]

1-) Nvidia has the most powerful cards.

That's only a valid argument for people who actually buy those cards, which are less than 30%...

2-) Nvidia has better ratio for performance per watt or simply performance / price ratio.

Again... we're talking about 30% of the cases, or less. GTX 1070 and above.

3-) For Linux side: Compability of Nvidia's driver is really good while Mesa is not good on that term. If you say GPU-PRO than i should say performance difference from Mesa. AMD driver side is a mess.[/QUOTE]

I have an AMD card and play games with it. Never had an issue and didn't have to install anything at all. It just works. You can't say the same about NVidia. So i fail to see how nvidia pulls the miracle of having better drivers.

AMDs driver problems are a myth.
While NVidia somehow manages to splip under the radar...

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/28/nvidia_vista_drivers/

https://www.zdnet.com/article/warning-nvidia-196-75-drivers-can-kill-your-graphics-card/

https://gizmodo.com/5035980/inquirer-pretty-much-every-nvidia-geforce-8800-9600-and-9800-graphics-card-is-defective

Maybe AMD should take a page off of NVidia's book and redirect resources from driver/hardware development into marketing...

[Weasel]

Sorry, but you hijacked a thread about GPU drivers about Windows SDK things nobody asked about. The open source 3D SDK is Mesa anyways.

I didn't hijack shit, I was directly replying to pal666, take it to him if you think he "hijacked" the thread.

[rene]

What has that to do with you quoting me then?

The context was this (which I replied to from pal666): He said "it is hard to develop without sources", which is just bullshit.

What has that to do with what you want on your system again? In fact, cross-developing is a thing to begin with, you can even write Windows software from Linux, even though the "target" is closed source so you only have the interface and SDKs.

Sorry, but you hijacked a thread about GPU drivers about Windows SDK things nobody asked about. The open source 3D SDK is Mesa anyways.