Ubuntu 14.04 Looks Toward Qt 5.2, Qt Mir In 14.10

[sarmad]

You are very funny, really! Gnome did lost a lot of customizability these days, that's why Cinnamon and MATE happened.

Do you mean the new generation of users are going to be smarter? So you hate experienced users, I see. Do you have any idea what "productive" is in a computing environment?

Not smarter, but new generations will not have spent 20 years working with a task bar and a programs menu that it became part of their lives.

And yes, I know what "productive" is in a computing environment and I am most productive with Gnome Shell.

With a single keypress I get a zoom out of everything running on the computer.
With a single keypress I get a terminal to slide down so I can quickly type my commands. Press it again and the terminal slides up.
With a single shortcut I get a search box that lets me directly search in google, wikipedia, youtube, google maps, etc. without having to first open a browser and go to their respective URLs. I can also customize it and add whatever search query I like.
With a single shortcut I can Google Translate any selected text without even opening a browser.
With a single drag I can get the windows I am working with to tile nicely on the screen.
I don't need to manage the virtual desktops because Gnome does that for me, adding and removing desktops as needed.
With a single shortcut I switch between desktops.
With a single keypress I can search through my applications quickly, including the running applications.
I have almost the entire screen available for my applications.
I have skype integrated into the top panel for quick access.
I can disable and enable screen savers with a single click.
I can switch between apps using alt+tab. I can also combine that with the mouse to go directly to what I want instead of continuous alt+tab presses.
I can maximize and unmaximize windows with a single shortcut.

And you can also customize all that with your own code. You also have access to an environment where you can control the DE programmatically.

What else do you need to be productive?

[tomtomme]

Uuuhmmm because other parts of the software stack depends on it? Having a single vendor controlling and doing asymmetric licensing on crucial parts makes everything very fragile and creates a million attack vectors against the whole stack. Qt have already been traded twice both to with large consequences.

If the guys of this single vendor (digia) are nice and came to an agreement with the oss-community (kde etc.), this vendor is not bad in my eyes, even if he has controll and earns money with that.
But I admit, that theoreticaly you are right about the attack vectors. That IS a potential future thread.
But isn?t it correct that despite the two trades etc. the qt-community is healthy or at least ok at the moment?
So in practice your fear did not come true yet.

All the other guys that argue your point of view in this thread do not have this fear and believe in a bright future for qt / kde etc. So couldn?t you agree to disagree about the future? They a bit too optimistic you a bit too pessimistic. Same is with the numbers of currently declining kde dev numbers. You interpret them pessimistic, me optimistic. Lets meet in the middle and do productive stuff again. Even me. I am quite bored and thus follow this thread... we should all go back to .... to do something. lol.

But something else - What are those "large consequences" of those two trades you are talking about? Did they affect someone (you?) badly?

[tomtomme]

Not smarter, but new generations will not have spent 20 years working with a task bar and a programs menu that it became part of their lives.

And yes, I know what "productive" is in a computing environment and I am most productive with Gnome Shell.

With a single keypress I get a zoom out of everything running on the computer.
With a single keypress I get a terminal to slide down so I can quickly type my commands. Press it again and the terminal slides up.
With a single shortcut I get a search box that lets me directly search in google, wikipedia, youtube, google maps, etc. without having to first open a browser and go to their respective URLs. I can also customize it and add whatever search query I like.
With a single shortcut I can Google Translate any selected text without even opening a browser.
With a single drag I can get the windows I am working with to tile nicely on the screen.
I don't need to manage the virtual desktops because Gnome does that for me, adding and removing desktops as needed.
With a single shortcut I switch between desktops.
With a single keypress I can search through my applications quickly, including the running applications.
I have almost the entire screen available for my applications.
I have skype integrated into the top panel for quick access.
I can disable and enable screen savers with a single click.
I can switch between apps using alt+tab. I can also combine that with the mouse to go directly to what I want instead of continuous alt+tab presses.
I can maximize and unmaximize windows with a single shortcut.

And you can also customize all that with your own code. You also have access to an environment where you can control the DE programmatically.

What else do you need to be productive?

To my knowledge all that is also possible with KDE or Windows 7. Except this:
With a single keypress I can search through my applications quickly, including the running applications.

How is this acomplished? With which application can you search within different other applications? Or did I get something wrong here...?

[pingufunkybeat]

The Nokia buyout was great for media support because it kicked out Phonon. But it was very disruptive to the widget part. Declarative language and mobile was introduced (too) aggressive. Nokia told that this would end up with "the next billion linu devices", that never materialized and Qt ended up redoing widgets and keeping QML at Digia now serving Blackberries! That is very disruptive and Nokia Legal held back alot during the last months. If you look at KDEs ohloh for the same period you will realize the consequences.

The linux tool kit stack shouldn't be fragile due to delicate business.

Just in case anyone was wondering what Shuttleworth meant with "Tea Party", this guy is it ^^^

Extremist ideological drivel over. and over. and over. and over. again. all. the. time.

[Delgarde]

Why did Gnome take over development of GTK? I know that it was originally created for GIMP (it's the GIMP ToolKit) but I can't seem to find any articles or anything about Gnome taking it over...

It's not like there was any kind of formal takeover, if that's what you're asking. It's just that Gnome has always been one of the biggest users, and biggest contributors to the toolkit. Basically, they control it simply by virtue of being the ones doing all the work.

[pingufunkybeat]

Thank you. Im a proud Software Tea Party guy.

I had you figured out. You do have their evangelical zeal, aggression and resistance to facts.

[tomtomme]

The Nokia buyout was great for media support because it kicked out Phonon. But it was very disruptive to the widget part. Declarative language and mobile was introduced (too) aggressive. Nokia told that this would end up with "the next billion linu devices", that never materialized and Qt ended up redoing widgets and keeping QML at Digia now serving Blackberries! That is very disruptive and Nokia Legal held back alot during the last months. If you look at KDEs ohloh for the same period you will realize the consequences.

The linux tool kit stack shouldn't be fragile due to delicate business.

What do you mean with nokia holding back something? What? I thought qt was sold from nokia to ... digia?
I still do not get what you mean with disruptive here. I am not a developger but Kde devs and qt devs all seem quite happy with the situation, and I read quite some threads about this.
And improving something (mobile, declarative language) ... isn?t that good? Its improvement. Too aggressive? What does that mean?
IMHO: They started such mobile improvements just a year ago or so - so I would think it needs more time for QT to land in more/actual products (phones etc.)

The kde ohloh numbers are wrong, as I showed you in the other thread. The graph I made is made from the numbers I picked myself from the kde digest. Ohloh claims that their graph is derived from the same source but they have totally different numbers - how can that be? Please check yourself and compare the digest numbers with the oloh grapf - there is something totally wrong there...

[sarmad]

To my knowledge all that is also possible with KDE or Windows 7. Except this:
With a single keypress I can search through my applications quickly, including the running applications.

How is this acomplished? With which application can you search within different other applications? Or did I get something wrong here...?

I haven't used KDE in a long long time so I won't comment on it, but Windows 7? I don't think so. I feel crippled when I use Windows 7. There are most probably tools that can do anything on any desktop environment but how easy is it to find those tools and how easy is it to install them? Even Gnome doesn't come with all this out of the box and I needed to install them from extensions.gnome.org, but it made it very easy for me to find and install what I want and without even affecting other users or needing root access. Install is a single click, uninstall is another single click. Can't get any simpler.

As for the search, you probably misunderstood what I meant. I meant searching for applications by typing their names instead of browsing through hierarchical menus. If the app is not running it will launch it. If it's already running it will switch to it. I know this is available on all DEs, but I'm just stating that Gnome is not falling short on this front coz this is quite a crucial feature.

[Delgarde]

How is this acomplished? With which application can you search within different other applications? Or did I get something wrong here...?

I assume what he means is that if you press the "Start/Windows" key, it brings up the overview of running applications. And from there, typing the name (or relevant keywords) will produce an auto-completing list of all applications, documents, etc. It's a different UI, but it's pretty similar functionality to the search feature in the Windows 7 start menu. Not unique to Gnome, but it *is* one of the most important parts of Shell, as far as efficiency of the UI is concerned...

[anda_skoa]

Can you give one reason why Digia shouldn't prioritize Canonical before KDE?

Can you give an example how Digia would currently prioritize KDE before Canonical?

Cheers,
_