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  • #41
    Originally posted by robclark View Post
    (b) I don't really see a downside.. if you aren't a fan of DRM then don't buy/consume DRM content. It's not like this is adding some closed src blob to the kernel or something like that.. it is adding a feature, not compelling anyone to use that feature.
    There can be several downsides. First of all, it helps proliferation of DRM. I.e. Linux implicitly endorses it by implementing this. It already stinks for me. But bigger problem can be legal. Since that code touches on DRM, it still might be a subject to anti-circumvention provisions. I.e. you might be simply legally forbidden to modify it, since it can facilitate circumvention of DRM. I'm not sure this is even compatible with GPL. It's a very slippery slope.

    How much stuff like DMCA-1201 can be abused, see here. We can all despise Sony for attacking developers based on their PlayStation OS, but think about someone doing it using this very Linux code.

    Originally posted by robclark View Post
    Either way, more downstream device kernel code is the worst of both worlds.
    This is moot. Same argument was in W3C. Should vendors implement bad DRM without standards, and use bad native plugins, or should W3C make EME and have standard interfaces (for DRM)? Their argument went that getting rid of bad native plugins is good. But I think it's the opposite. The more sore DRM is, the less likely it will be used. Improving it (or rather obscuring its problems from the user) serves the opposite purpose and only helps its proliferation. In the end W3C went ahead with it despite objections. I'd really not want Linux to end up the same way. But Google and Co. will surely put a lot of pressure, same as they did in W3C.
    Last edited by shmerl; 11-30-2017, 10:53 PM.

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    • #42
      I don't really care for DRM as long as i am allowed to use my legally-purchased media and make legal copies for backup.

      The only people against DRM are those who want to get paid content without paying for it. Like getting free Xbox or Playstation games. Or emulating an Xbox or Playstation so that they don't have to pay Microsoft or Sony for the hardware. That is the sole motive of every single pirate, full stop.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
        The only people against DRM are those who want to get paid content without paying for it.
        That's complete nonsense. DRM itself is unethical overreaching preemptive policing. So I can say that the only people who are pro-DRM are those who endorse police state methodology.
        Last edited by shmerl; 12-01-2017, 09:21 AM.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by shmerl View Post
          That's complete nonsense. DRM itself is unethical overrearching preemptive policing. So I can say that the only people who are pro-DRM are those who endorse police state methodology.
          Can you dare to swear that you have never downloaded pirated versions of software, music or videos because you didn't want to pay for them? Or if you have never made unauthorized copies of paid media after renting them or buying them?

          The difference is i can. Just like how there is a game released on the PS Vita, PS3 and PS4. I paid for all three copies of them on all three platforms. Because that is how things are supposed to be.

          Content creators have the right to demand for payment for every copy of their work sold.
          Last edited by Sonadow; 12-01-2017, 02:36 AM.

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          • #45
            I build my own kernels, so if this gets added I will take it right back out of every kernel I build. If a kconfig switch is included I will use it, otherwise I will simply remove the offending code entirely. Total non-support for DRM content is fine for me, I have literally never even seen a DRM'ed file beyond an old-school, long-cracked CD or DVD. When the H264 patent expires every file I posses will presumably become playable on Trisquel type distros.

            The paid media producers would themselves be NUTS to serve content they don't want instantly cracked to Linux desktops and laptops with kernel level encryption because anyone could build their own kernel and apply a patch that only one person would have to write to make the kernel only appear to "protect" the content. To defeat that would require checking kernel versions and looking for known "good" versions-but that in turn would require software to check the kernel, which also could be modified.

            The paid media people would be smart to keep this shit in the Windows 10 world that they can control, they are fools to come into our domain. Even Android is subject to rooting, and to replacement on some devices of the entire filesystem with an alternate build, kernel included.

            No, you cannot play Netflix on any of my machines, and I could care less. I stopped watching TV years ago. I have never even SEEN a Blu-ray movie disk, and stopped buying CD's and DVD's over ten years ago when the filesharing lawsuits began. The "DRM" on those disks was broken decades ago, is no longer a factor, and at any rate I have very few of those disks as I stayed on analog until the end of that era.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by Sonadow View Post

              Can you dare to swear that you have never downloaded pirated versions of software, music or videos because you didn't want to pay for them? Or if you have never made unauthorized copies of paid media after renting them or buying them?

              The difference is i can. Just like how there is a game released on the PS Vita, PS3 and PS4. I paid for all three copies of them on all three platforms. Because that is how things are supposed to be.

              Content creators have the right to demand for payment for every copy of their work sold.
              And we have the right to tell them to take their paid content and stuff it where the sun doesn't shine, as I do. Hell, as a producer of non-monetized protest video I see monetized platforms (such as Youtube) and monetized reporters as competition, not as product. I would be a direct beneficiary if they all went bankrupt. So would all those musicians who never got "discovered," never made a penny on music, but do distribute content and some of whom are a match in quality of work for anyone who won the record contract lottery. To those players, the massive popularity of the big stars can act as spam that crowds their content out. Been there, done that back in the analog era.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by Luke View Post

                And we have the right to tell them to take their paid content and stuff it where the sun doesn't shine, as I do.
                You have every right not to buy their content. You have zero] right to break their content encryption just to gain it without paying for it.

                But I don't expect a person with zero regard for law and order like you who go around instigating and organizing armed protests to disturb society to even understand how the law works.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
                  You have every right not to buy their content. You have zero] right to break their content encryption just to gain it without paying for it.
                  What about the right to break their content encryption so that you can actually use the content you paid them for? Because that's always been the biggest problem with DRM (and with most copy protection mechanisms, really) – it has more impact on legitimate customers than it does on pirates. Pirates have little difficulty in bypassing them, so the only people affected are those with legit copies having technical difficulties because you've deliberately made things more complex and prone to failure.

                  Look at those stupid anti-piracy messages they screen on DVDs before you're allowed to watch the movie – the only people who see them (and find them annoying) are the paying customers, because the pirated copies have sensibly removed them.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Delgarde View Post

                    What about the right to break their content encryption so that you can actually use the content you paid them for? Because that's always been the biggest problem with DRM (and with most copy protection mechanisms, really) – it has more impact on legitimate customers than it does on pirates. Pirates have little difficulty in bypassing them, so the only people affected are those with legit copies having technical difficulties because you've deliberately made things more complex and prone to failure.
                    Like what?

                    I'm going to use the PlayStation as an example; Sony allows all games downloaded and bought from PSN to be installed on up to 5 consoles. That's more than enough for backup and archival purposes; no sane person is going to own more than 5 consoles at the same time.

                    If for some freak reason the 5-type limit is exceeded, Sony allows users to deactivate all the games and then re-activate it on the console.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Sonadow View Post

                      Like what?

                      I'm going to use the PlayStation as an example; Sony allows all games downloaded and bought from PSN to be installed on up to 5 consoles. That's more than enough for backup and archival purposes; no sane person is going to own more than 5 consoles at the same time.

                      If for some freak reason the 5-type limit is exceeded, Sony allows users to deactivate all the games and then re-activate it on the console.
                      I don't know about his reasons, but I'll always remember my horrible protection experience with the first Sacred Game, I always regretted buying it and not pirating it as the protection crashed the game so many times (maybe one out of two or three launches, seriously that bad if my memory is correct) :/



                      In this very case though, I don't really care either way. As Rob said the code is FOSS and we don't have to use it, so it does not bother me.

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