Originally posted by starshipeleven
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It Looks Like Intel Could Begin Pushing Graphics Tech More Seriously
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostI condemn anyone that does not do his own research and buys whatever is on sale.
It is the best way to get fucked sideways and end up with whatever random crap the seller was trying to get rid of (which should already speak about how much it is desirable). It is a sign of stupidity, and I despise stupidity.
Humans are called "homo sapiens sapiens", which is "man who knows that he knows", it's the meta-thinking and abstraction ability are what makes a human, not the ability to talk and understand spoken language.
The complexity of the field is not relevant, if you need something you should be able to do a decent choice. If you know you don't know enough to tell good from bad you look for experts and reviews, in real life or the Internet. Not assume whatever is on sale is OK.
And I'll also respectfully disagree on the level of complexity of smartphones, TVs, apartment rentals (and housing in general), and pets.
And they usually do. I've yet to see devices with only iGPUs being marketed as "gaming", outside of dodgy internet ebay auctions, anyway.
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Originally posted by duby229 View PostThe advantages of the latest shrink and so on has been true for every generation released at the time it was released. It's not any different today than it ever was. And through all of it Intel has never set the minimum performance bar for a given generation high enough. Not once. You can try to make the claim all you want that people don't game, But in fact you are wrong about that. It may not be as serious as it would be for a gamer, but it is reasonable for folks to expect a game they bought to work.
It is not foolish to expect Intel's consumer products should perform well enough to play the games available during that products generation.
Really, you have no fucking idea of what it would take for "expect a game they bought to work". Even APUs can't run many AAA games decently (if at all).
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Originally posted by starshipeleven View PostI think that if people make uninformed choices it's their own problem.
Really if someone buys a normal boring car and expects it to be good for racing it's his own problem. You're saying that car manufacturers should only sell racing cars because people can't make informed choices.
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Originally posted by duby229 View PostMaybe not label, but they can design adequate GPU's but unfortunately they haven't. Also we are gamers so we consider gaming computers, but most won't ever think that way.
After all you don't buy gaming smartphones either. You expect that what you pay for is going to work. It's true for Androids, -not- true at all for PC's, and that is entirely Intel's fault.
Really, you're so funny. People looks for gaming smartphones too, and if you get in any kind of Android forums you see plenty of people complaining that their crap phone can't run heavy Android games.
Or on XDA, where people tweak the hell out of their teapots (adding swap, changing governors, hacking kernel) to be able to game.
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Originally posted by Michael_S View PostWhile I agree with you on the principles that apply here, I don't think it's fair to condemn non-technical people for screwing it up.
Shopping for toasters, televisions, smart phones, books, shirts, plane fares, apartment rentals, and even pets is substantially less complicated than researching an appropriate purchase for a gaming PC.
It is the best way to get fucked sideways and end up with whatever random crap the seller was trying to get rid of (which should already speak about how much it is desirable). It is a sign of stupidity, and I despise stupidity.
Humans are called "homo sapiens sapiens", which is "man who knows that he knows", it's the meta-thinking and abstraction ability are what makes a human, not the ability to talk and understand spoken language.
The complexity of the field is not relevant, if you need something you should be able to do a decent choice. If you know you don't know enough to tell good from bad you look for experts and reviews, in real life or the Internet. Not assume whatever is on sale is OK.
And I'll also respectfully disagree on the level of complexity of smartphones, TVs, apartment rentals (and housing in general), and pets.
But to your point, Intel can't put a label on a particular machine - especially since they're not selling the finished desktop or laptop, Dell/HP/Toshiba/whatever is - indicating its appropriate use and giving a definitive list of games and display resolutions that are supported. And some of the machines can be easily upgraded, and some can't.
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Originally posted by caligula View PostOf course the dedicated GPUs HAVE TO run faster. Otherwise nobody would buy them. The lowest end GPUs actually have same kind of memory with similar perf. For instance 64-bit DDR3. Intel iGPUs have really killed the potential sales of several generations of low power GPUs from Nvidia. There's Geforce 210, 610-620, 710-730, but after that, only recently 1030. It's clear as to why there are so many missing models. All sorts of budget models of Nvidia GPUs have been available since 2001.
It's especially nasty situation for HTPC builders since the missing models often were passively cooled.
The ones crying were people that wanted a kinda-game-console thing, or just clueless ones.
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Originally posted by caligula View PostCherrytrail is already an obsolete legacy platform.
Even Dell 9250 with Skylake freeze from switch Gnome Terminal to fullscreen mode from time to time. Which generation is expected to work well? Sandy Bridge?
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Originally posted by caligula View PostIt doesn't need to. It already beats legions of highest end legacy cards, thus people who aren't that much into gaming but want to play their old games can just upgrade the system and don't loose anything.
The iGPU practically free, too, included on the chip.
I used Ivy Bridge and Haswell graphics for years.
Currently many gamers think 7700k is a better gaming CPU than Ryzen 1800X or Threadrippers, even when comparing overclocked AMD vs 7700k. They wouldn't switch even if they got Ryzens for free.
Smarter ones ask around on forums or look at benchmarks.
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Originally posted by duby229 View PostThose aren't the only things that people do. And who do you think you are to tell people that because they chose to buy an Intel system, (almost definitely at a sales reps recommendation) that they shouldn't be gaming? Really?
Really if someone buys a normal boring car and expects it to be good for racing it's his own problem. You're saying that car manufacturers should only sell racing cars because people can't make informed choices.
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