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Intel's Mesa On-Disk Shader Cache Maturing, Radeon Devs Not Yet Convinced

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  • #21
    Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
    These days, if you have a single-core CPU, chances are GPU performance is not a priority.
    shader cache does not affect gpu performance

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    • #22
      Originally posted by pal666 View Post
      it has no stutter
      Cool if does not now i did not tried it recently, so possible that Marek make some workaround there. Or we talk about different dirvers here? Or you might just have fastest CPU on planet, so did not spot an issue?

      it's just cpu-bound
      Well i know that generally MCCaps or __GL_THREADED_OPTIMIZATIONS or threadedGL feature missing
      Last edited by dungeon; 13 July 2016, 10:29 AM.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by pal666 View Post
        there is secret patented technology called page cache
        wow!!

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        • #24
          Originally posted by pal666 View Post
          shader cache does not affect gpu performance
          And that's relevant because...?
          The shader cache is inevitably for the GPU. My point is if you have shaders complex enough that caching them has a substantial impact on performance, then that means you're running something that a single-core CPU is probably not going to keep up with. Therefore, focusing on multi-threading mesa should offer a significant performance difference without the need of permanent storage.

          EDIT:
          Again - I have no problem with caching shaders; any performance enhancement is welcome. I just think it should've been a lower priority, and I'd like to know if I can [easily] disable it.
          Last edited by schmidtbag; 13 July 2016, 11:10 AM.

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          • #25
            An on-disk shader cache is super important to speed up the loading times of Dead Island (the original, not so much the remake, but the remake runs slower and looks just like Dying Light, so it’s not as good). I’m sure there are other games that benefit significantly from it, but Dead Island is the worse example I know of. Deadfall Adventures also has super long loading times that are much shorter when you launch it the second time.
            Last edited by stqn; 13 July 2016, 11:13 AM. Reason: Checked Deadfall loading times…

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            • #26
              Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
              I just think it should've been a lower priority
              I would put CPU related issues on highest priority, by giving AMD Temash laptops to all developers (please do not complain devs, that is still double faster then what Stallman use ) But developers, eh those developers... they always like to use fastest CPU to save time on code compilation, so it is always lowest priority for them

              and I'd like to know if I can [easily] disable it.
              Windows drivers has GUI to click on/off it, we will probably have some console command line or so or if you compile mesa there is a switch to not compile it or you can change permission to not write to folder when it suppose to store caches , etc...

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              • #27
                This is stupid. Any dev who doesn't see a dire need for an on-disk cache doesn't play games. You want an insane example, go try out NS2. I recommend you have some coffee or a sandwich to make. Unreal Tournament suffers greatly as well. Trying playing a twitch FPS that microstutters (are full 1 second freezes micro at that point?) for the first half of every match due to on-the-fly shader compilation. The whole 'I don't see the benefit beyond x' argument is just idiocy. There's a reason the proprietary drivers use it.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by duby229 View Post

                  I think at least in theory, the linux file cache should handle that automatically? Once a file is read it should be cached to ram on the fly right?
                  unless some game abuses ram to insanity where first thing being dropped are things that are cached. loading it inside game guarantees persistence

                  as far as startup goes, there is no benefit in kernel caching unless you start game twice where only 2nd time would use them. there is also fact that reading one big file is much faster than reading 4000 small ones/

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by SaucyJack View Post
                    This is stupid. Any dev who doesn't see a dire need for an on-disk cache doesn't play games. You want an insane example, go try out NS2. I recommend you have some coffee or a sandwich to make. Unreal Tournament suffers greatly as well. Trying playing a twitch FPS that microstutters (are full 1 second freezes micro at that point?) for the first half of every match due to on-the-fly shader compilation. The whole 'I don't see the benefit beyond x' argument is just idiocy. There's a reason the proprietary drivers use it.
                    A lot of the Unreal Engine 3 games are pretty bad at this, but apparently UE4 no longer needs it now that the GL4.3 path is working.

                    Anyway, I don't think Marek is against the idea of a shader cache, I just think he wants to take care of some other performance problems first which he thinks can help more people faster. For example, he just committed this: https://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/me...4a10e67cdee073 which looks like it will pretty massively reduce register spilling in games with complex shaders.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                      Anyway, I don't think Marek is against the idea of a shader cache, I just think he wants to take care of some other performance problems first which he thinks can help more people faster. For example, he just committed this: https://cgit.freedesktop.org/mesa/me...4a10e67cdee073 which looks like it will pretty massively reduce register spilling in games with complex shaders.
                      There have also been conflicting views about how many games would actually benefit from a persistent shader cache (ie how many games compile shaders for the first time during the middle of gameplay)... there are still discussions going on about that.
                      Last edited by bridgman; 13 July 2016, 05:07 PM.

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