Intel Expresses Interest In AMD's Mantle API

[Kivada]

Mantle is not used on consoles, no idea where this bs comes from. It is Windows/GCN only.

Consoles have been using Mantle like APIs to squeeze every last drop of performance out of them since forever ago. The language that they are using isn't exactly the same as Mantle as it is even more specific as the language is made for that exact model of GPU used in the consoles who while Mantle has to work across all GCN based GPUs.

[_ONH_]

But it is AMDs API, so they are free to do with it whatever they want. I just wish they would stop calling it open.

No. Look back at AMDs openness in HW and SW, Bullet Physics, GDDR3/4/5, Code XL, HSA and all the things that made it into DP Standard, it is more likely to get something truly open from AMD instead from Nvidia, which in the past has not really done something truly open.

[Nille]

How does it not make sense? It's aparently a very low level API, much closer to the hardware then OpenGL/Direct3D which means that the code would be very architecture dependent.

No, No, No and No. Its still Hardware independent.

[Kivada]

AMD's attitude does not make much sense - they are locking the specs of that API against GCN with no intention for input from other architectures. This gives me only mild hopes of any further Mantle adoption. It is not like AMD going to intel and nvidia and saying, hey D3D sucks a huge ass, GL sucks two smaller asses, let's implement an API that will suck less.

How does it not make sense? It's aparently a very low level API, much closer to the hardware then OpenGL/Direct3D which means that the code would be very architecture dependent.

[Nille]

but if that would be nvidia it would be good to be sceptical,

Why you bring nvidia in this topic?

but with amds past, we can be pretty shure and we have no reason to doubt it.

AMD was never very strong on the Software Side.

or where in the history of amd they made false claims or what did they not open up?

The OpenGL Implementation and OpenCL Implementation are still horrible. I dont hear from new specs for the AMD hardware since long time and source code is not a documentation. Or its now possible to write a driver driver from scratch without looking at the current foss driver?

But another question are here just only nvidia users that want to rant against amd? I see so much sceptism and reaction 5 minutes after I postet that 3 ansers against it?

Btw: I'm a AMD Fanboy ...

[blackiwid]

And another thing u always mention that it only supports GCN it supports EVERY GPU in the future, and pre-gcn in 2 years nobody cares about. So I am pretty shure nvidia will implement some similiar hardware too if their current gen is not capable of similar stuff already.

Else how will DX12 close the performance gap to mantle? So I am pretty shure that all DX12 hardware that is FULLY DX12 compatatible will also be able to run Mantle if the vendor implements it in the driver.

Yes thats all not 100% shure I cant give u a 100% guarantee or proof it to you, but thats what I see as the most likely to happen.

[blackiwid]

Here a great article that makes my point even better:

Anandtech has put forward the theory that Mantle?s low level API is actually the Xbox One API outright, and AMD just won?t admit it. Anandtech bases this speculation on their interpretation of AMD?s statements. They focus on AMD saying the card can optimize on what next generation consoles are capable of, and that it can use Direct3D?s High Level Shader Language.

On Digital Foundry?s end, they find there is a lot of commonality between Playstation 4?s GNM API and Mantle. Like GNM, Mantle stays compatible with Microsoft?s High Level Shader Language but provides low level GPU access.

If both are true, than AMD has opened up the doors for optimized graphics card utilization on both PCs and consoles. What?s more, Mantle is apparently open, so Nvidia can use it, and maybe even Nintendo, iOS and Android. AMD has partnerships with many major game engines going, so we may see the consequences of Mantle very, very soon.

* http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/1...-and-xbox-one/

[blackiwid]

Talk is cheap.

yes thats true but if that would be nvidia it would be good to be sceptical, but with amds past, we can be pretty shure and we have no reason to doubt it. or where in the history of amd they made false claims or what did they not open up?

So amd is credible as long they dont change their attitude in the future.

To the "not supported on consoles" the hardware does support it, maybe u are right so far... but when I see that ps4 and xbone version of Watch Dogs that had to be slaughtered for pc, so that it looks not way better on pc and works faster, and that on a new Plattform I question the speed of the apis they use. If its not the api what did they do made a 10% more speed update to ps3?

But:

Anandtech and Digital Foundry have found that Mantle?s low level API is similar to the Xbox One and Playstation 4 APIs, respectively.

thats maybe enough. its sure much more complicated to port a opengl game to konsoles or more likely the other way around than with mantle. so maybe yes u need to support more apis but if they are closer together maybe u save still 90% of the porting costs.

But another question are here just only nvidia users that want to rant against amd? I see so much sceptism and reaction 5 minutes after I postet that 3 ansers against it?

At least mantle (if you take amd serious and I dont see any reason why not) will be working in windows and linux and will have multi-gpu support (at least intel seems to want to implement it) and will be easy to port to konsole-apis, which other api have that feature set?

[log0]

I agree that amd could handle that better and open it up more earlier, BUT on the other side I dont get why people think the api is dead because it doesnt happen so fast.

3d APIs exist for very long time ranges opengl exists since I dont know 20 years? Is it really I time based race or something?

Mantle Supports today Windows + Xbox360 and ps4, so 99% of the gaming market. Ok not 100% true they dont support windows on the other grafic cards but Consoles alone make 60-80% of the interesting market.

So it will not die. because a vendor has big advantage when they can make games 20% faster or nicer looking or both on both konsoles, the windows amd support is a nice goody on top of that.

And AMD said now several times that they will open up the specs, so whats the problem. Of course it will be interesting if it comes to radeon, but on the other hand with the opensource driver u cant really make a good (per buck) gaming machine anyway.

But in the long run why wouldnt they implement that open api then into the free drivers? A driver gets always in the long run all features a hardware offers and software exist for... except there are some patents or somthing.

so stop beeing so impationed and dont forget to remember Nvidia is the master of propriatary crap (physiks, monitor-sync-nvidia...)

I dont see them here so.... go go go AMD.

Mantle is not used on consoles, no idea where this bs comes from. It is Windows/GCN only.

Oh, and they will sure open the specs, like Nvidia opened the CUDA compiler and IR. That still won't make it an open standard. Because that would require collaboration with other vendors, which AMD is obviously not interested in.

But it is AMDs API, so they are free to do with it whatever they want. I just wish they would stop calling it open.

[przemoli]

Mantle Supports today Windows BUT NOT Xbox360 NOR ps4, so LESS THAN 99% of the gaming market. Ok not 100% true they dont support windows on the other grafic cards but Consoles alone make 60-80% of the interesting market.

Thats better.

AMD never claimed that Mantle is present in XOne nor in PS4. All they are saying (and capitalizing on) is that since those consoles use AMD CHIPS, then same assumptions and optimizations should work on dGPUs/APUs on IBM clones side of fence. And hence Mantle. Its for making ports easy to use. Its for using fast code paths on AMD hardware.

And if You count out Win, XOne, PS4 You still get much, much, much more gaming, then that 1%.