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Intel Mesa Gives Problems With KDE's KWin, Again

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  • energyman
    replied
    isn't it great? They do a stupid change (idiotic even) and when people (rightfully) complain, they shut them down.

    And people are surprised that there aren't more mesa/driver devs.

    Btw, which users are more important than the composite using window managers?
    Games? Surely not - since opensource drivers, especially intel's suck way to much for that. CAD? Don't try to be funny. There is a reason workstation drivers (from amd and nvidia) are seldomly updated and certified to run workstation applications.
    So what is left - xmms ogl analyzer plugin?

    Leave a comment:


  • pingufunkybeat
    replied
    Originally posted by baryluk View Post
    Using Mesa renderer string for determining features is the same stupid thing as using UserAgent string in browsers. Just test functionality and performance experimentally at runtime if needed.
    The functionality tests caused the system to crash. That's why drivers were blacklisted -- even testing functionality and performance caused them to crash.

    Leave a comment:


  • baryluk
    replied
    Using Mesa renderer string for determining features is the same stupid thing as using UserAgent string in browsers. Just test functionality and performance experimentally at runtime if needed.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheBlackCat
    replied
    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
    This issue comes up every few months. The core problem here is that the KDE devs were writing new code which used OpenGL features that were just being implemented in the open drivers. Nothing wrong with that in principle but it requires fairly close communication between app and driver developers so everyone understands what should and should not work.
    Except that isn't what happened. The features that broke had been working for several releases by that point. They hadn't been significantly changed.

    Leave a comment:


  • mat69
    replied
    Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
    "We Germans are direct and speak the truth" etc. Such remarks have no place in (what should be) a technical discussion.
    Well but it is not racism per se. Though the "speak the truth" is in fact crap.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlackStar
    replied
    Originally posted by mat69 View Post
    What kind of racist remark are you talking of?

    Imho his mail is indeed way too long and might apear arrogant instead of solution oriented. I doubt that devs who themselves have to cope with rare spare time they can invest in their projects are willing to read long rants in this regard.
    "We Germans are direct and speak the truth" etc. Such remarks have no place in (what should be) a technical discussion.

    Leave a comment:


  • mat69
    replied
    Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
    Martin's email to mesa-dev really doesn't paint him in a good light. Interpersonal skills are of utmost important to a project manager and he displays close to none. Plus, his racist remark was very ill-conceived.

    In any case, the solution is simple:
    (a) write piglit tests to cover kwin functionality
    (b) establish minimum version requirements (e.g. kwin 4.7 requires mesa 7.11)

    Ranting and panting won't get us anywhere.
    What kind of racist remark are you talking of?

    Imho his mail is indeed way too long and might apear arrogant instead of solution oriented. I doubt that devs who themselves have to cope with rare spare time they can invest in their projects are willing to read long rants in this regard.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlackStar
    replied
    Martin's email to mesa-dev really doesn't paint him in a good light. Interpersonal skills are of utmost important to a project manager and he displays close to none. Plus, his racist remark was very ill-conceived.

    In any case, the solution is simple:
    (a) write piglit tests to cover kwin functionality
    (b) establish minimum version requirements (e.g. kwin 4.7 requires mesa 7.11)

    Ranting and panting won't get us anywhere.

    Leave a comment:


  • mat69
    replied
    Originally posted by marek View Post
    I couldn't disagree more. The features were implemented as much as they could be on the given piece of hardware. GLSL is not C. An arbitrary piece of code in GLSL might not work everywhere. That's the reality. Just pay attention to your code and it will pay off.

    As for the discussion on the ML, it proves that nobody has the time to test his software with someone else's software. Most people are unpaid and simply don't care. (what would you choose: hacking some drivers or kwin for free, or checking out the chick who lives next door, or maybe playing in a rock band and have some fun?)
    I have to admit that I lack the knowledge in this regard and was posting what I remembered or thought to remember.

    In any case I think we can agree that blogs for sure aren't the correct medium to raise issues. I think they are a good way to inform others (i.e. not the affected devs) of it, but informing should imo ideally not contain finger pointing at all. Still the situation for the users is bad and that should improve one way or the other.

    Leave a comment:


  • marek
    replied
    Originally posted by mat69 View Post
    Actually free drivers _started_ to advertise features as implemented while they weren't.
    I couldn't disagree more. The features were implemented as much as they could be on the given piece of hardware. GLSL is not C. An arbitrary piece of code in GLSL might not work everywhere. That's the reality. Just pay attention to your code and it will pay off.

    As for the discussion on the ML, it proves that nobody has the time to test his software with someone else's software. Most people are unpaid and simply don't care. (what would you choose: hacking some drivers or kwin for free, or checking out the chick who lives next door, or maybe playing in a rock band and have some fun?)

    Leave a comment:

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