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Also, Slackware was the only Linux distribution to try and help with the regression that shipped with the updated code. They included a few extra versions of the Intel driver for Xorg in Slackware 13.
If only Linux distributions didn't make a big deal about sticking with their older products. You go to some of these websites and they never put up links off the main page for their older releases. It's always the latest.
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People buy what they can afford.Originally posted by drag View Post
Companies test their hardware with a version of Windows. With the 815 and 845GL's this would have been Windows 2000 or Windows XP. So if your computer came with that you should probably run that.
BestBuy and Walmart don't sale Linux PC's. Until they do don't expect 110% from Linux. It's more the hardware companies and the Linux distribution's fault.
Fedora and Ubuntu all knew there were problems with Intel's additions to the graphic code in Mesa, Xorg, and the Linux Kernel. They shipped distributions based on it anyway. People complained.
What should have happened was that the parts that were added should have had versions of the software lacking the additions to compensate for the hardware which was problematic. Mesa and a kernel addition would have solved the problem. I blame Torvalds for this. He's always griping about crappy code and regressions and he let the largest 2 problems into the kernel. Graphics and Scheduling.
Until we get a company guaranteeing their Linux distribution and supporting a package freeze beyond 6 months. Don't bank on linux.Leave a comment:
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@darkbasic
I don't have got intel mobile hardware, the desktop hardware (g33,q35,q45,h55+i5-680) did not have got this problem. I don't know of a Kanotix user with that problem too. But what i do not get is why you use 2.6.33.x kernel when 2.6.35 is stable, i even used 2.6.36 rc to test intel onboard. Maybe it is more easy to use those kernels with something differnet than gentoo
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For example:
and much more minor bugs...
I have to waste at least 10 minutes to boot and when kde is loaded it just *HANGS* the system when it detects when it detects the s-video out.
xrandr didn't work too (with xorg-server >=1.8), I even don't know if it's already fixed.Leave a comment:
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Which huge problems do you have got with gma 4500? You can not test h264 via vaapi but compiz / kde 4 effects should do.Leave a comment:
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Well partly is a feature by design of Linux distributions... which is that to get an upgraded web browser, office suite, or even fix a driver you are expected to replace your entire stack. Yes you can get PPA's for some things, but running an older distribution (as a user) doesn't feel built in by design - if a user doesn't want to get into compiling code to make their new Wacom tablet work they will need to upgrade their distro.
In this case, no your wrong.
The Pre-GMA 8xx video devies sucked ass. I mean they were really really really really really bad. They never worked right and never were that stable in ANY operating system. They sucked in Windows, they sucked in Linux, they sucked in everything.
OS X will never support them _at_all_. Windows Vista and Windows 7 will never support them properly and never did. Only XP works marginally better then Linux and even then it still is wretched.
The fact that the driver authors are bothering to go back and try to update the support for these old and crappy devices _at_all_ to be compatible with the sweeping modernization efforts that have happened to Linux and X Winodws in the past decade goes to show that they actually do care about their users and backwards compatibility with hardware.
I wouldn't. I owned 8xx devices and even worked with them professionally in embedded devices.... and I would not even give that much of a shit about it.
If they actually get 8xx devices working with xrandr and all that, even with out hardware acceleration, this is still better then 8xx users ever had.
Your a idiot. Try going back to using pre-R200 ATI laptop devices in Linux (or any OS) and then maybe you'll have a clue why this is such a absurd statement.OMG
Next time I will buy an ati powered laptop instead...Leave a comment:
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To be honest, the root of it (that is causing so much wind ;-) ) is the rolling model of Linux, the changing APIs, the incomplete software, is in need of evolution/refinement.
I'd be happy running my old distribution to use old hardware (if there ever was this mythical stable driver for Intel graphics) if I could buy new hardware, and easily install a driver to work on it (ie, not compiling and upgrading numerous packages). I'd stick to the same distribution if I wasn't being forced to upgrade to get a stable sound system, or working Web Browser, or recent copy of Flash. PPAs help but they don't go far enough and aren't standard enough.
I suspect part of it is just some refinements to the LTS model (can 10.04.1 give me updated end-user software on my stable core system?) but part of it is just an extension to the same issues video game makers are complaining about -- the lack of a stable/predictable target that vendors (even hardware vendors) can target.Leave a comment:
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Well partly is a feature by design of Linux distributions... which is that to get an upgraded web browser, office suite, or even fix a driver you are expected to replace your entire stack. Yes you can get PPA's for some things, but running an older distribution (as a user) doesn't feel built in by design - if a user doesn't want to get into compiling code to make their new Wacom tablet work they will need to upgrade their distro.Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
In part, this is less of a fact than it used to be, it in part is what enabled netbooks to succeed... I can reap many of the benefits of current versions of Linux and Windows 7 on this same hardware. Sure, I don't get Aero [due to 8xx hardware limitations] but I certainly get a more secure system and regardless I could have still left it on Windows XP and there is still hardware and software written that will run on it. It's not that I can't do this with an older distribution of Linux, it's just one has to jump through more hoops.Fact is, system requirements are constantly going up.
New kernels seem to run just fine on my system. The most significant risk is ensuring it gets tested to prevent regressions (and I suspect there are plenty of Pentium M's and other pieces of my chipset out there still that this isn't too high right now... things that don't work never did)The kernel is constantly being worked on to gear performance towards computers with more than 2-way SMPness, and NUMA (i.e. Core i3/i5/i7/i9). These performance improvements are definitely helpful for people running newer systems, but they add bloat and slow down ancient systems.
This isn't exactly the case here - Intel chose to rewrite their graphics stack a while ago so it's all 'new' code so the 'older' driver (with UMS) never was quite stable on any hardware and the abandoning of UMS by Intel was to eliminate as many bugs as possible in one swoop and allow them to focus their energies on the remaining bugs. So going back to buggy code doesn't make hardware more stable.In reality, it's difficult to have it both ways, because supporting both the old code and the new in a single codebase is, as Intel is quickly finding out, difficult to impossible.
If anything, the code originally coded for the old hardware was found in the i810 driver, which Intel abandoned as part of re-writing their driver. Since it wasn't updated with the new features in X/DRI2 (I believe) it was abandoned by distributions.
Except that I believe that was still the 'rewrite' driver and was not necessarily stable or quick at that point, plus around 8.04 the pulse-audio/flash issues were at their peak. I'm not inclined to re-install and fight through layers of fixes (not sure which 8.04.x fixed) to get it all going again. I wasn't until 10.04 that Pulse-Audio was running well enough that I could run the new Skype... there are significant limitations to saying 'run an old distro'So I propose that anyone still using an i8xx chipset ought to stick with something like Ubuntu 8.04 LTS, or CentOS 5.x. You will still get very good security updates for a few more years with either distro, and the graphics stack in these distros still uses concepts that the i8xx can cope with, like UMS, OpenGL 1.3, and the good ol' XAA.
I don't know why the old driver wasn't carried forward... and I don't know what parts need to be carried forward versus the driver being updated to be compatible with newer pieces. If it's easy to install, and stuff runs, the end user won't care.OTOH, forward-porting an old graphics stack to the latest kernel and X server might not be impossible, but if it's done I think it should be in its own separate repository. And you'd need a corresponding mesa-legacy and libdrm-legacy for this, because you can't just forward port the DDX, you have to forward port any components it depended on.
There has been 2d acceleration for quite a while, perhaps not as nice as Windows7, but that's more relying on architectural changes to hardware to eliminate much duplicated memory/copying... and building 2d on modern 3d hardware. Even 3d has worked on this hardware for a while no?I have to say, though, that the shadowfb with KMS can be very fast. I've used shadowfb on several cards, and it is marvellous at 2D. You don't need 2d hardware accel most of the time because, let's face it, the CPU is a good blitter for simple GTK and web browsing; this is exactly what was used in Windows and Mac for many many years before beefy video cards were the norm.
Anyone who bought Intel 3d hardware was never expecting this... and this has been said so many times this is getting tiring.And be reasonable, people. If you have such ancient hardware, don't expect to run Google Earth and Unigine and Heroes of Newerth. If you do expect it, you are being unreasonable.Leave a comment:
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