Intel Begins Queuing Kernel Graphics Driver Changes For Linux 6.12

[phoronix]

Phoronix: Intel Begins Queuing Kernel Graphics Driver Changes For Linux 6.12

Intel Linux graphics driver engineers today sent in their first batch of patches to DRM-Next of new material they are prepared to introduce with the upcoming Linux 6.12 kernel cycle...

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Intel-DRM-Next-For-Linux-6.12

[kylew77]

Is it just me or does Intel's financial woes mean they are contributing support later and later to Linux and other smaller operating systems than they used to be? It is not good practice to say hey if you want to run anything other than the UEFI equivalent of the VESA driver you need to run an RC kernel! Lunar lake chips are shipping soon and the Kernel with fully baked support won't be here till November or December as ready. In the past, Intel was the encouraged graphics vendor for Linux and *BSD support because they upstreamed everything early and had good support. Now while still having good support they are just super late to the party with drivers. My next laptop I was hoping would be Intel because of their upcoming technologies like backside power, rentable units, and a few others I am forgetting the name of that promise cooler chips temperature wise and better performance. But it remains to be seen what 2025 - 2026 chips will look like and their support from Intel on FLOSS operating systems.

[uid313]

I think AMD CPU with integrated GPU has higher performance GPU than Intel CPU with integrated GPU. Anyone know more about this and can clarify?

It seems Intel Xe was a huge step up from earlier Intel integrated graphics, and that Xe2 is a huge step up from the previous Xe graphics, but I heard AMD has even better GPU performance on their CPU. I don't know if that is on all their CPU or only some variants with X3D or whatever they call it with vertically-stacked cache or something.

[skeevy420]

I think AMD CPU with integrated GPU has higher performance GPU than Intel CPU with integrated GPU. Anyone know more about this and can clarify?

It seems Intel Xe was a huge step up from earlier Intel integrated graphics, and that Xe2 is a huge step up from the previous Xe graphics, but I heard AMD has even better GPU performance on their CPU. I don't know if that is on all their CPU or only some variants with X3D or whatever they call it with vertically-stacked cache or something.

Anecdotally, AMD CPUs have had better iGPU performance for around a decade now; ever since they released "APUs". Intel CPUs usually have better CPU/processor performance, though they've really been trading blows with each other in the mobile CPU space lately. All that's stuff you outta be able to Google and verify very easily. That's basically why the Steam Deck and a lot of other handheld gaming devices use AMD CPUs. CPU performance only means so much when a product's use-case is GPU bound.

X3D is stacked cache and has nothing to do with iGPU performance outside of potential thermal throttling of the iGPU. The stacked cache runs warm so X3Ds aren't necessarily ideal choices if you're going to use them without a dGPU or a really good cooler.

Using desktop CPU naming, the G series CPUs from AMD have the better iGPUs in them. You can usually get a better iGPU in mobile form factors and SoCs based on mobile CPUs. As far as current and known upcoming stuff goes, AMD iGPUs still have 30% or so more performance than Intel iGPUs.

[uid313]

Anecdotally, AMD CPUs have had better iGPU performance for around a decade now; ever since they released "APUs". Intel CPUs usually have better CPU/processor performance, though they've really been trading blows with each other in the mobile CPU space lately. All that's stuff you outta be able to Google and verify very easily. That's basically why the Steam Deck and a lot of other handheld gaming devices use AMD CPUs. CPU performance only means so much when a product's use-case is GPU bound.

X3D is stacked cache and has nothing to do with iGPU performance outside of potential thermal throttling of the iGPU. The stacked cache runs warm so X3Ds aren't necessarily ideal choices if you're going to use them without a dGPU or a really good cooler.

Using desktop CPU naming, the G series CPUs from AMD have the better iGPUs in them. You can usually get a better iGPU in mobile form factors and SoCs based on mobile CPUs. As far as current and known upcoming stuff goes, AMD iGPUs still have 30% or so more performance than Intel iGPUs.

Oh, then I should avoid the X3D variants because I don't use a dedicated GPU.

The most important for me is CPU performance since I don't really do any gaming and I need the CPU performance to compile stuff. Spending money on a dedicated graphics card would be a huge waste of money for me since it would be idle 99,999% time.

Still I enjoy having a integrated GPU on the CPU to sometimes try some games. My Intel integrated GPU in my 4770K has served me rather well over the years for games like Minetest and Portal 2, etc. But now it showing its age and it doesn't work with games such as Ori and the Will of the Wisps (2020) so for my next CPU I would appreciate if the GPU was decent by today's standards.

[skeevy420]

Oh, then I should avoid the X3D variants because I don't use a dedicated GPU.

The most important for me is CPU performance since I don't really do any gaming and I need the CPU performance to compile stuff. Spending money on a dedicated graphics card would be a huge waste of money for me since it would be idle 99,999% time.

Still I enjoy having a integrated GPU on the CPU to sometimes try some games. My Intel integrated GPU in my 4770K has served me rather well over the years for games like Minetest and Portal 2, etc. But now it showing its age and it doesn't work with games such as Ori and the Will of the Wisps (2020) so for my next CPU I would appreciate if the GPU was decent by today's standards.

It depends on if you're going to ever use a dGPU/play games or not. The 7800X3D is the better CPU, hands down, but if you're going to be using the iGPU for games then 7800X3D isn't the best choice when compared to the 8700G. Using a dGPU, the 8700G isn't a good choice when compared to the 7800X3D.

This compares the 7800X3D with the 8700G. The first 5 minutes use an RTX 4090 to compare them CPU to CPU, after that it's iGPU vs iGPU.

The 8700G doesn't have that bad of an iGPU. It's comparable with an RX 6400 or GTX 1600.

Both videos use 1080p and the CPUs are currently $300 for the 8700G and $360 for the 7800X3D. If you have an extra $120 to spare for an RX 6400 or 6500 XT, you'll be happier in the long run.

[cutterjohn]

It depends on if you're going to ever use a dGPU/play games or not. The 7800X3D is the better CPU, hands down, but if you're going to be using the iGPU for games then 7800X3D isn't the best choice when compared to the 8700G. Using a dGPU, the 8700G isn't a good choice when compared to the 7800X3D.

This compares the 7800X3D with the 8700G. The first 5 minutes use an RTX 4090 to compare them CPU to CPU, after that it's iGPU vs iGPU.

The 8700G doesn't have that bad of an iGPU. It's comparable with an RX 6400 or GTX 1600.

Both videos use 1080p and the CPUs are currently $300 for the 8700G and $360 for the 7800X3D. If you have an extra $120 to spare for an RX 6400 or 6500 XT, you'll be happier in the long run.

AMD mobile and APUs are MONOLITHIC designs, and have no parts w/X3D IIRC.

The desktop parts are chiplet designs, and the 'iGPU' resides on the IODIE, NOT the CCXs(or whatever term they're using now... I lost track). Furthermore the 'iGPU' on the IODIE is just about good enough to run a DE and thats about it. I'm pretty sure it was intended to ease life for server vendors/perhaps barebones sellers... The IODIE is also why minimum idle power is ~20W(IIRC) on the chiplet based parts, which is why I had HOPED that they would adress the IODIE for 9XXX series, e.g. at a bare minimum bump it to 4nm node, but nope its still on the 6nm process w/no changes(Im sure some minor things were changed but I haven't read anything, but also I have not gone out of my way to look).

May 10XXX series will spend more time on the IODIE, be nice to see it get some design changes, and address minimum idle power... also note that the monolithic design chips do not suffer from the IODIE imposed 20W min idle power...

Sounds like uid313 would be targetting one of the APUs(does AMD still call them APUs?) or a notebook anyways, so he would get a better iGPU, how much better will depend upon the chip... but they'd ALL be MUCH better that what you get w/the IODIE iGPU... I have no benchmarks for the IODIER 'iGPU' and have it disabled in firmware on my system, preferring more capable dGPUs for gaming and other workloads...

[skeevy420]

AMD mobile and APUs are MONOLITHIC designs, and have no parts w/X3D IIRC.

The desktop parts are chiplet designs, and the 'iGPU' resides on the IODIE, NOT the CCXs(or whatever term they're using now... I lost track). Furthermore the 'iGPU' on the IODIE is just about good enough to run a DE and thats about it. I'm pretty sure it was intended to ease life for server vendors/perhaps barebones sellers... The IODIE is also why minimum idle power is ~20W(IIRC) on the chiplet based parts, which is why I had HOPED that they would adress the IODIE for 9XXX series, e.g. at a bare minimum bump it to 4nm node, but nope its still on the 6nm process w/no changes(Im sure some minor things were changed but I haven't read anything, but also I have not gone out of my way to look).

May 10XXX series will spend more time on the IODIE, be nice to see it get some design changes, and address minimum idle power... also note that the monolithic design chips do not suffer from the IODIE imposed 20W min idle power...

No mobile or graphics oriented CPU from AMD is X3D...which sucks, but it makes sense when thermals are considered. My 7800X3D hits 84C under a Prime95 load with an undervolt and a $120 Noctua cooler. Without the undervolt or when using a weaker cooler like a Wraith Prism, thermal throttling can be an issue with the 7800X3D. Because of that, the iGPU in the 7800X3D is really only good enough for light desktop work.

I think you're right about easing life for everyone. The iGPUs in the non-Gs just aren't that good and are only 1/6th the power of an RX 6400 or the 8700G. They're good enough to power a desktop and configure stuff, which is about all a sys admin or office user needs out of a GPU. They also give AMD users the option of always being able to have a host OS and a virtual OS assuming they have a dGPU. Historically, one of AMD's biggest weaknesses was that nearly all Intel CPUs had an iGPU which made Intel a great choice for virtualization machines. Now AMD can compete for those power users, too.

uid313, if you're reading this, you'll want to have worth-a-shit cooling if you get the X3D. I have a Noctua U12A and 5 case fans (2 vent, 3 intake) to keep my 7800X3D and 6700 XT cool. Even with all the fans, my previous Wraith Prism just wasn't enough with the 7800X3D. There are $40 coolers that benchmark just as well as my overpriced Noctua.

The 8700G comes with a good enough cooler from AMD, though one of those $40 coolers with a bigger block and 2nd fan wouldn't hurt.

Sounds like uid313 would be targetting one of the APUs(does AMD still call them APUs?) or a notebook anyways, so he would get a better iGPU, how much better will depend upon the chip... but they'd ALL be MUCH better that what you get w/the IODIE iGPU... I have no benchmarks for the IODIER 'iGPU' and have it disabled in firmware on my system, preferring more capable dGPUs for gaming and other workloads...

They dropped the APU moniker with Zen 4/AM5 since all their CPUs come with an iGPU now.

Because he said he wanted to compile stuff first and gaming uses were a 2nd-to-maybe, that's why I suggested the 7800X3D and the cheapest possible dGPU. I forgot to mention it last night, but my $120 extra suggestion was +$60 for the X3D and +$60 for a used dGPU like a 6500 XT. He'll be infinitely happier with the X3D if he's going to be compiling stuff.

As far as compiling stuff goes, an 8-core 9700X is also a good choice, but the dGPU would still their iGPU is the sys-admin special, too. They're $10 cheaper than the X3D and are equal or beat it in pure IPC and some benchmarks. For gaming and cache-limited workloads the X3D is still better. The upcoming 9000X3D CPUs will be some beasts.

I'm trying not to mention mobile or mini PCs with mobile SoCs. Those are 100% the better choice if someone is using an iGPU for graphics and gaming. The G series on the desktop are the worst performing CPUs when it comes to processing and compiling code. For that form factor I'd suggest something with the AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 370. I'd love to have a laptop with one of those. Great graphics, great processing, and it has some AI bullshit so it's a little more future forward.

[duby229]

No mobile or graphics oriented CPU from AMD is X3D...which sucks, but it makes sense when thermals are considered. My 7800X3D hits 84C under a Prime95 load with an undervolt and a $120 Noctua cooler. Without the undervolt or when using a weaker cooler like a Wraith Prism, thermal throttling can be an issue with the 7800X3D. Because of that, the iGPU in the 7800X3D is really only good enough for light desktop work.

I think you're right about easing life for everyone. The iGPUs in the non-Gs just aren't that good and are only 1/6th the power of an RX 6400 or the 8700G. They're good enough to power a desktop and configure stuff, which is about all a sys admin or office user needs out of a GPU. They also give AMD users the option of always being able to have a host OS and a virtual OS assuming they have a dGPU. Historically, one of AMD's biggest weaknesses was that nearly all Intel CPUs had an iGPU which made Intel a great choice for virtualization machines. Now AMD can compete for those power users, too.

uid313, if you're reading this, you'll want to have worth-a-shit cooling if you get the X3D. I have a Noctua U12A and 5 case fans (2 vent, 3 intake) to keep my 7800X3D and 6700 XT cool. Even with all the fans, my previous Wraith Prism just wasn't enough with the 7800X3D. There are $40 coolers that benchmark just as well as my overpriced Noctua.

The 8700G comes with a good enough cooler from AMD, though one of those $40 coolers with a bigger block and 2nd fan wouldn't hurt.



They dropped the APU moniker with Zen 4/AM5 since all their CPUs come with an iGPU now.

Because he said he wanted to compile stuff first and gaming uses were a 2nd-to-maybe, that's why I suggested the 7800X3D and the cheapest possible dGPU. I forgot to mention it last night, but my $120 extra suggestion was +$60 for the X3D and +$60 for a used dGPU like a 6500 XT. He'll be infinitely happier with the X3D if he's going to be compiling stuff.

As far as compiling stuff goes, an 8-core 9700X is also a good choice, but the dGPU would still their iGPU is the sys-admin special, too. They're $10 cheaper than the X3D and are equal or beat it in pure IPC and some benchmarks. For gaming and cache-limited workloads the X3D is still better. The upcoming 9000X3D CPUs will be some beasts.

I'm trying not to mention mobile or mini PCs with mobile SoCs. Those are 100% the better choice if someone is using an iGPU for graphics and gaming. The G series on the desktop are the worst performing CPUs when it comes to processing and compiling code. For that form factor I'd suggest something with the AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 370. I'd love to have a laptop with one of those. Great graphics, great processing, and it has some AI bullshit so it's a little more future forward.

I expect the AI processor in that thing to be too slow by the time desktop AI software becomes available on Linux. It's a catch22, but unless you are coding software to target it, then it really doesn't have a use and when it does it will most likely be too slow.

Otherwise I fully agree with you.