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  • qarium
    replied
    Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Do you own one?
    No need to work on 3D acceleration then. You hear that guys? LLVM-Pipe is good enough for anyone.
    no i do not have one. but you don't believe people who tell you this and i have no reason for not believe what people tell me about apple m1/m2

    you really really don't get it. you claim only because you can watch youtube on LLVM-Pipe and use simple UI apps does not mean the people do not want the full gpu performance.

    you as a gamer you have a specific view on apple m1/m2 what this hardware does not serve anyway even if the driver would be perfect you still would not want it you still will not buy it.

    thats the joke about you you demand stuff and even if apple does all you want in the end you will not buy it.

    to be honest you are a customer for hardware like this: laptop with something like intel 13900K+Nvidia RTX4000 on 4nm with FAKE-Frames DLSS3.0(this alone saves 25% energy.)

    and whatever apple does they can never compete with this because all your legacy games are all closed source x86 games ,,,

    best case szenario for apple M3 would be if apple do license and put in RDNA3 gpu who have hardware for FSR3.0 (similar to DLSS2,x hardware on RTX cards) ,,, but even if apple does this it could not compete with " intel 13900K+Nvidia RTX4000" in your case all your games are x86 and vulkan or dx12...

    so its complete pointless to talk with you about apple m1/m2/m3

    and its also pointless to talk with you about intel ARC because in the end you will not buy it.

    the problems right now are so big that you will not buy it. stuff like games in proton does not run... games who do run have hangs/stuttering,.,.. and so one.

    people say all the bad reviewers are windows only or/and gamers only but on linux gamers need proton and many titles do not run.

    so it looks like to be honest intel ARC is not for you YET... i am 100% sure you will not buy it.

    wait 1 year and intel maybe has fixed all the problems. it was for amd the same with the RDNA1 release they did nearly need 1 year to make it all run nicely on linux...


    Leave a comment:


  • Dukenukemx
    replied
    Originally posted by qarium View Post
    well you do not have a apple m1/m2 means all you talk is pure speculation.
    Do you own one?
    and people who do have an M1/M2 told you LLVM-Pipe is already fast enough.
    No need to work on 3D acceleration then. You hear that guys? LLVM-Pipe is good enough for anyone.

    Leave a comment:


  • smitty3268
    replied
    Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    You have a source or not? You can't just say things without proving it. Put a link.
    I suspect he's getting it directly from this article:
    Originally posted by phoronix, in the article for this comment section
    But even still some games out there -- some Steam Play titles -- simply won't run yet with the Intel "ANV" Vulkan driver. Among the few unimplemented features is the Vulkan sparse support needed for some VKD3D-Proton games like DIRT 5, Deathloop, Assassin's Creed: Valhalla, Forza Horizon 4/5, and other modern titles.
    Sounds like DX12 games are broken but DX11 and prior probably work?

    The linked bug report is a year old and says that
    d3d12 feature level 12_0 and beyond and are currently unavailable on Anv
    the number of games requiring feature level 12_0 to even launch has only increased
    Last edited by smitty3268; 09 October 2022, 05:52 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    They have direct control. Either that or sell their own motherboards because clearly their board partners have lost their minds.
    They don't have control over partner board pricing, but they surely know the input costs and how they compare with previous generation. They had a lot of influence over that, back when they decided on the specs for this generation.

    Also, I read some mention of the new Zen 4 boards having 2 "chipset" chips? That indeed sounds more expensive than 1, but it depends on the specifics.

    I think the main issue with motherboard costs for Alder Lake and Zen 4 is PCIe 5.0. That requires boards with more layers, more expensive materials, and retimers. DDR5 also isn't helping.

    The other thing that's happened is inflation. Board makers' input prices have gone up, sometimes considerably. Some of the more extreme examples (like Ethernet PHYs costing $hundreds) will get sorted out as silicon manufacturing backlogs are worked through, but we obviously can't expect to see current gen board prices bottom out at the same prices of earlier gens.

    Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    You can't raise prices and expect stuff to sell. In fact, it isn't.
    Some people will pay more for more performance, but I agree that the mid-market has to stay at a roughly similar point.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder
    replied
    Originally posted by Anux View Post
    True, but still AMD never had a problem staying behind Intel with DDR or PCIe.
    They actually leapfrogged Intel, with PCIe 4.0. Intel was caught so off-guard that Intel was stuck on PCIe 3.0 for 20 months after Zen 2 launched (July 2019)! It was supposed to be much less, but Intel had last-minute problems with PCIe 4.0 on Comet Lake boards and had to drop back to 3.0, before launch (August 2019). It wasn't until the launch of Rocket Lake (March 2021) that Intel finally got on PCIe 4.0!

    I can understand AMD not wanting to get left behind, staying on PCIe 4.0, even though it's more than enough for desktop user.

    Originally posted by Anux View Post
    They probably saw benefits of having PCIe 5 with SSDs and GPU direct acces
    Being able to run dual-x8 GPUs @ PCIe 5.0 is the singular argument for having it on the desktop, and only if you're running high-end GPUs of the sort a desktop PSU could barely power 2 of.

    In terms of SSDs, not only do desktop users not need PCIe 5.0 speeds, but SSDs are just working their way to market that can finally come close to maxing PCIe 4.0 on reads.

    It took a year after AMD's PCIe 4.0 support landed, for SSDs to hit the market that could exceed PCI 3.0. We're now seeing the same story play out with PCIe 5.0 vs 4.0. And when they do, they're burning lots of power, which means they throttle, which means they can't sustain it.

    AMD was early on PCIe 4.0 support, which is why they got the jump on Intel. Intel responded by being even earlier on PCIe 5.0. And it's not as if this stuff is "free". Everybody is paying for it in higher motherboard costs and power consumption. Just for Intel's bragging rights.
    Last edited by coder; 09 October 2022, 06:55 PM.

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  • rogerx
    replied
    If I was given a dime everybody stated "AMD" or an AMD related terminology within this thread, I certainly would not be broke!

    Leave a comment:


  • qarium
    replied
    Originally posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
    It makes no sense for Nvidia or AMD to release a non-flagship card. They have so much inventory of their last generation cards. They’re just going to drop the price of the RX 6800/6900/6950 XT and release the 7800/7900 with similar price tags of the RTX 4080/4090. The RX 6700 XT was released like 6 months after the 6800/6900. Lisa Su said they’re no longer the budget brand. Their prices are going to be as overpriced as Nvidia’s pricing.
    The 3090/3090 Ti/4080/4090 are power hungry but their performance per watt is are high. The performance per watt of the RX Vega 64 is horrible: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/a...ega-64/32.html
    you know what a pipecleaner is ? if you see history of amd the last 10 years they always use pipecleaners if they start a new node.
    the 7900 can not be a pipecleaner because the mm² of the die is to big the result would be a total lost of all dies.
    just to make an example what a pipecleaner is for amd all the HD4000 cards where in fact 55nm only the HD4770 RV740 was 40 nm
    and the RV740 is a small chip.
    pipe cleaner need to be small chip because the amount of damanged chip are high. if they make a big chip first they lose all dies.

    They see in the 7700 no danger to their 6700 and 6900 because of only 8gb vram many people want more vram and then they buy the 6950XT anyway.

    also because the 7700 is a pipecleaner product the driver will also not be ready for the big show they use the 7700 to fix the drivers.

    the 7800 and 7900 and 79503D will launch later wiŧh fixed drivers and also full yields of the chips.

    "Lisa Su said they’re no longer the budget brand"

    the 7700 will cost 800€ its not a budget product.

    "the RX Vega 64 is horrible:"

    yeah i get it if the cards runs 99% in idle its horrible to burn so much energy per FPS in benchmarks or games...

    you are out of your mind really.


    Leave a comment:


  • qarium
    replied
    Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    Tell those people I said they're wrong.
    LLVM-Pipe uses the CPU which will use more battery and still be slower by a noticeable amount. Facts aren't lies.
    Then why does Apple even include a GPU? Save the silicon and remove it. Clearly you know what's best.
    well you do not have a apple m1/m2 means all you talk is pure speculation.
    and people who do have an M1/M2 told you LLVM-Pipe is already fast enough.

    "LLVM-Pipe uses the CPU which will use more battery"

    this is true but does not care at all because bettery time is already good. (the best)

    "still be slower by a noticeable amount"

    who cares ? right now only gamers care about this part and clearly no gamer buy M1/M2

    "Facts aren't lies."

    you as a person who do not have apple m1/m2 you claim X then people pop up who do have this hardware and say you are wrong... ok 1 week later you claim the same wrong lie shit again.

    "Then why does Apple even include a GPU? Save the silicon and remove it. Clearly you know what's best."

    its clear why apple include the gpu there are apps and games who use it and with macos they have also gpu driver..

    the linux people are a niche for apple.

    Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    You have a source or not? You can't just say things without proving it. Put a link.
    people in this forum topic did allready give links as source. and also people who already have the intel arc gpu also say this.
    also you can use google you will be surprised what you find if you search for intel arc stuttering...

    Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    They have direct control. Either that or sell their own motherboards because clearly their board partners have lost their minds.
    wrong they have no control also they do not have the resources to build and sell the mainboards themself.

    "clearly their board partners have lost their minds"

    this is true but this will only change over time and maybe changes after the release of the lowend mainboards
    B640/650 chipset

    what can they do about this? the board partners think they can make a big profit AMD can not change this.

    similar mainboards from intel are already cheaper this means there is no reason for such high prices.

    Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
    You can't raise prices and expect stuff to sell. In fact, it isn't.

    There is not 7500 XT you dolt. At least not for a while.
    AMD did not do raise prices in fact the 7000 series is 100€ cheaper than the 5000 series ... this means AMD did in fact lower their prices.

    you claim AMD did raise prices thats not true... similar intel mainboards are already cheaper there is no reason for such high mainboard prices.

    if you see here; https://geizhals.de/?cat=mbam5 the cheapest am5 mainboard is 309€

    similar intel mainboards are 166€ : https://geizhals.de/?cat=mbp4_1700&xf=493_4x+DDR5+DIMM

    why do you think AMD has control over this ?

    for AMD there is only one possibility to bypass this if they re-release the 5nm 7000 cpus as am4 cpus with ddr4 ... but the performance will not be the same.

    Leave a comment:


  • WannaBeOCer
    replied
    Originally posted by qarium View Post

    yeah right but it becomes a niche this kind of extreme esports... also 500hz i think the human can not use it or see it.



    the 4090 is also power hungry does not make it a bad card.

    "They’re only going to announce the 7900/7800 GPUs"

    i have different informations than this. they will launch the 7700 first then the 7800 and 7900 and 79503D last...

    the reason for this is the highend cards depent on 3D stagged cache and like the cpus they launch without 3D cache first and then they launch super highend with 3D cache later on top of that.

    they use the 7700 as pipe cleaner of the 5nm node the 7700 will have 6950xt level of performance with only 8gb vram.
    and the price will be something like 800€



    "handful of games" and 'Titan RTX... well people who buy intel arc do not have performance level of titan rtx... and well handful of games means you pay extra for very little to gain.
    It makes no sense for Nvidia or AMD to release a non-flagship card. They have so much inventory of their last generation cards. They’re just going to drop the price of the RX 6800/6900/6950 XT and release the 7800/7900 with similar price tags of the RTX 4080/4090. The RX 6700 XT was released like 6 months after the 6800/6900. Lisa Su said they’re no longer the budget brand. Their prices are going to be as overpriced as Nvidia’s pricing.

    The 3090/3090 Ti/4080/4090 are power hungry but their performance per watt is are high. The performance per watt of the RX Vega 64 is horrible: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/a...ega-64/32.html

    Leave a comment:


  • qarium
    replied
    Originally posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
    1080p/1440p isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. These resolutions are used for esports. New 1080p 500hz monitors were announced.
    yeah right but it becomes a niche this kind of extreme esports... also 500hz i think the human can not use it or see it.

    Originally posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
    Vega is power hungry, as mentioned I own both a Vega 64 and Radeon VII. In three weeks we’re Not going to see a sub $500 dollar RDNA3 card. They’re only going to announce the 7900/7800 GPUs. We didn’t see the RX 6600 XT until a year after the RX 6800/6900 release.
    https://www.techpowerup.com/review/a...ega-64/37.html[/LIST]​
    the 4090 is also power hungry does not make it a bad card.

    "They’re only going to announce the 7900/7800 GPUs"

    i have different informations than this. they will launch the 7700 first then the 7800 and 7900 and 79503D last...

    the reason for this is the highend cards depent on 3D stagged cache and like the cpus they launch without 3D cache first and then they launch super highend with 3D cache later on top of that.

    they use the 7700 as pipe cleaner of the 5nm node the 7700 will have 6950xt level of performance with only 8gb vram.
    and the price will be something like 800€

    Originally posted by WannaBeOCer View Post
    Ray tracing on Linux works fine on my Titan RTX with a handful of games thanks to VKD3D-proton.
    Looks like Intel already added ray tracing support on Linux too: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Intel-...Tracing-Enable
    "handful of games" and 'Titan RTX... well people who buy intel arc do not have performance level of titan rtx... and well handful of games means you pay extra for very little to gain.

    Leave a comment:

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