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Intel Updates Alder Lake Tuning For GCC, Reaffirms No Official AVX-512

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  • #41
    Originally posted by coder View Post
    No, this is not normal. Don't gaslight us into believing that the only problem with this picture are the expectations of the PC-buying public. Intel's desktop CPUs didn't boost anywhere near this high, until they went nuts with Comet Lake.

    This is called a slippery slope. Next, AMD is going to respond by juicing the hell out of their CPUs. As a result of this pissing match, consumers get louder PCs (or more expensive coolers), higher electricity & cooling bills, and billions of tons of carbon are going to get burnt for just a few % of peak performance. This is not a good state of affairs.
    Finally a good unbiased comment without fanboyism for a change. You surely can if you want.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
      Good lord, I think birdie wrote about half the comments under this article.

      I'll never understand why some people get so invested in a company.
      Not sure what you're talking about. I'd be glad if we discussed products but instead half of the comments about ADL are "But but but Intel is bad!" WTF is wrong with people? Can we discuss the fucking products for a change and stop licking corporate anuses?

      Here's how AMD is fucking with you BTW: https://www.techpowerup.com/288864/a...ecture-support https://www.anandtech.com/show/16775...s-win7-support

      Do you really believe AMD is somehow inherently better than Intel and NVIDIA? Maybe they really care about the customer and not about their profits and shareholders first? Fanboyism (a direct result of tribalism) is the worst human trait/disease I've ever dealt with.

      And why are close to 100% of the comments in the article offtopic? This topic is about GCC patches to support ADL better. Can you stick to it instead of discussing a person who you personally dislike because he doesn't share your infinite AMD love and devotion?
      Last edited by avem; 11 November 2021, 06:15 AM.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by avem View Post
        Let me repeat myself, please read slowly and attentively: "Completely different classes of devices. The Ryzen G lineup is not meant to run with a discrete GPU, while ADL implies a discrete GPU". I should have thrown "different markets" and "different customers" into the mix as well.

        Nowhere in its marketing materials Intel makes a fuss of the ADL iGPU. It's there to be able to boot and run your system while you're looking for a discrete GPU. It's not a gaming iGPU by no means thus pitting it against Ryzen 5600G or 5700G is boderline stupid. Lastly Ryzen high performance parts (5800X, 5900X and 5950X) don't even have a built-in iGPU, OK? Let's talk about that, no? Then why did you start talking about ADL graphics performance for no reasons? Looks like you just wanna desperately find something bad about the new Intel CPUs lineup.
        If you do some office work or non-graphics related development for instance, Intel without discrete CPU is a perfectly reasonable choice even on the desktop.
        I see it more as a gradual difference. Ryzen G is more of an all rounder that sacrifices some (CPU) cache and TDP to make room for the iGPU. As a result it is slower in CPU performance, but the GPU is sufficient for games with modest graphics requirements.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by Rabiator View Post
          If you do some office work or non-graphics related development for instance, Intel without discrete CPU is a perfectly reasonable choice even on the desktop.
          I see it more as a gradual difference. Ryzen G is more of an all rounder that sacrifices some (CPU) cache and TDP to make room for the iGPU. As a result it is slower in CPU performance, but the GPU is sufficient for games with modest graphics requirements.
          This is a reasonable opinion but SOHO users don't even need any of currently released ADL CPUs - they are way overpowered for them, not to mention the cost of the platform. It would be nice if Intel released ADL CPUs with fewer P-cores/E-cores but with beefier graphics, say 64 or 96EUs. Lots of people would have been interested. Their UHD graphics was crap for so many years. Even since they released SkyLake they barely made it faster.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by avem View Post
            Elaborately choosing benchmarks, I see.
            It was chosen to disprove your claim that Alder Lake's inefficiencies were limited to "massively parallel computational tasks". A single threaded benchmark is not "massively parallel". It's compute-bound, but then so is a lot of stuff. In fact, it hardly even makes sense to talk about a CPU's efficiency on something that's not compute-bound.

            And the reason why there are a bunch of different benchmarks is so that you can look at the one that's relevant to your concerns.

            Originally posted by avem View Post
            In gaming ADL has shown to be faster and consume fewer watts than Ryzen 5900X/5950X CPUs.
            I don't play games. There are lots of things to do with a CPU besides gaming.

            Originally posted by avem View Post
            An IPC increase is staggering.
            It's similar to Zen3's, but yes. I didn't expect it to be that much (nor did I expect that of Zen3).

            Originally posted by avem View Post
            OK, you're happy? Can we now dissolve and stop discussing how horrible these CPUs are despite setting a few dozen records in various benchmarks?
            All I want is a fair discussion of the data. If it shows the CPUs are super-efficient, that's great. If there's evidence to the contrary, then we need to acknowledge it.

            I credit Intel with the bold decision to go Big.Little. I know they've caught a lot of flak for it, but I see the potential.

            I also credit ADL with a real step forward in Golden Cove's microarchitecture. I just hope you're right that there's a clockspeed target it can run with competitive efficiency. So far, I have yet to see convincing evidence of that.

            As I've said, I'm likely to buy one. So, please don't call me a hater.

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            • #46
              Originally posted by avem View Post
              Yeah, it was clear from 1000 miles away that you came here to praise Ryzen and find whatever faults in ADL. Thank you for confirming that.
              You made a factual claim, based on half of the data. I didn't refute your claim, I just asked for the other half of the data. You don't have to oblige, but then your claim remains unsupported.

              I would actually like to believe what you claimed, but I want to see all of the data necessary to support it. That's why I asked.

              Finally, there's simply no need to be antagonistic. Either reply with the data or don't, but this sort of response makes you seem childish and insecure. It definitely doesn't help your credibility.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by avem View Post
                They have not formally introduced AVX-512 in their consumer lineup yet aside from a few mobile parts. You're blaming them for something they haven't done.
                Rocket Lake is a mainstream consumer desktop CPU, launched in March of this year. Tiger Lake is a mainstream consumer mobile part (launched > 1 year ago), with no contemporaneous alternative. Their entire 11th gen series had AVX-512, both mobile and desktop.

                As you'll know, their HEDT, Xeon W, and Xeon Scalable series have all had AVX-512 since Skylake.

                Originally posted by avem View Post
                People who absolutely need AVX-512 will buy the known motherboards that allow to unlock AVX-512
                I'm less concerned about users, and more concerned about software developers who were investing in AVX-512, with the expectation that Intel (and soon AMD) would have it across-the-board.

                As for users, you don't always know what feature you're going to need, when you buy a new PC. The performance without AVX-512 is good enough, in most cases, that I don't think it's a huge issue.

                However, as previously pointed out, if you actually do need AVX-512, then it's risky to use ADL. Not only might your CPU have a defect in one of its AVX-512's, but they might also release a microcode or BIOS update that defeats your ability to enable it. I would go so far as to advise anyone needing AVX-512 to steer well clear of ADL and point them at a Tiger Lake or Xeon W, instead.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by avem View Post
                  Again, the feature is not advertised, zero reviewers even talk about it as a competitive advantage in their conclusions, I'm not sure why you continue to argue and with whom exactly.
                  Just clarifying the point about validation. You seemed to be suggesting the issue was a lack of design validation, whereas the tweet was focused on manufacturing QA.

                  Originally posted by avem View Post
                  People often buy CPUs/GPUs which are DoA despite having passed QA/QC. So what?
                  If it flat-out doesn't work or crashes all the time, then at least you know it's broken. Defects can have more subtle consequences, though. I'd really hate to see someone use it and get errors in their data, whether for CAD or research of some kind.

                  So, I really do think people should be aware of the risks they're taking, if they buy an ADL with plans to use its AVX-512. Beyond that, I wouldn't try to stop them doing so.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by avem View Post
                    half of the comments about ADL are "But but but Intel is bad!" WTF is wrong with people?
                    Their Big.Little and AVX-512 are controversial decisions. Some debate of these decisions is entirely natural and should be expected.

                    Beyond that, there are legitimate concerns about its efficiency.

                    What I don't get is why you seem so threatened by these discussions? Why are you trying to shut them down? Do you have some vested interest that you've not disclosed? Otherwise, you are as entitled to your opinions (and as capable of backing them up with data) as anyone else.

                    Originally posted by avem View Post
                    And why are close to 100% of the comments in the article offtopic? This topic is about GCC patches to support ADL better.
                    Right in the article's title: "Reaffirms No Official AVX-512"

                    AVX-512 is On. Fucking. Topic.

                    Deal with it.
                    Last edited by coder; 11 November 2021, 10:47 PM.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by avem View Post
                      SOHO users don't even need any of currently released ADL CPUs - they are way overpowered for them, not to mention the cost of the platform.

                      ... Their UHD graphics was crap for so many years. Even since they released SkyLake they barely made it faster.
                      My group at work uses only iGPUs in our desktops, even since Skylake. We do software development and therefore do need faster & higher core-count CPUs for doing builds and running VMs.

                      Originally posted by avem View Post
                      It would be nice if Intel released ADL CPUs with fewer P-cores/E-cores but with beefier graphics, say 64 or 96EUs. Lots of people would have been interested.
                      This is planned for mobile, although I doubt such a CPU will show up in a LGA package. It might be available to desktop users only in NUCs and mini-PCs.

                      https://www.anandtech.com/show/16881...oarchitectures

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