Intel Proposes Linux Kernel Driver Allow/Deny Filtering

[oiaohm]

Assuming that whitelist/blacklist explicitly means lists of races is completely wrong and out of the ordinary.

immigration/Census usage is does not line up with using whitelist/blacklist being allow and deny lists. Because those races list in that context. Caucasian with black skin that does happen still goes in the whitelist because they are Caucasian so have to be in the white list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_terminology_for_race#Racial_categories_after_1945

Of course in recent years the color usage by immigration and census has attempted to be replaced by race names.

So whitelist/blacklist being races is not completely wrong or out of the ordinary. This does bring a problem with using blacklists and whitelists for allow and deny lists due to how a person can look at this as being their race. Yes whitelist being allow list is fairly new by worst history. Black list being deny just a side effect of a historic event.

The race usage of black list, yellow list, White List....goes back to the 1730 coming a formal define in 1779 for english but there was formal define in french in 1775 so some of the usage was before whitelist was a allow list it was a list of Caucasian. Yes 1775 french you have used a lot in the diplomatic circles in england such as immigration.

The history around blacklist, whitelist and it usages get really horrible. Understanding the 1775(french) 1779(english) formal define that to some people says blacklist is them and then blacklist having a negative meaning as a deny list causes them to get upset.

Whitelist being allow list in 1776 was in direct conflict with the usage by immigration at the time. If you have not worked out this is historic bastard move that party plays into the White Australia policy and a few other countries that anyone one on white list is to be allowed.

There is history why people could be upset over blacklist and whitelist due to how the multi defines of those words have interacted to cause some horrible treatment cases.

The worst part is the blacklist and whitelist being used for race is still in use. So in one way blacklist an whitelist has too many defines and some of those defines need to be culled.

[tildearrow]

immigration/Census usage is does not line up with using whitelist/blacklist being allow and deny lists. Because those races list in that context. Caucasian with black skin that does happen still goes in the whitelist because they are Caucasian so have to be in the white list.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_terminology_for_race#Racial_categories_after_1945

Of course in recent years the color usage by immigration and census has attempted to be replaced by race names.

So whitelist/blacklist being races is not completely wrong or out of the ordinary. This does bring a problem with using blacklists and whitelists for allow and deny lists due to how a person can look at this as being their race. Yes whitelist being allow list is fairly new by worst history. Black list being deny just a side effect of a historic event.

The race usage of black list, yellow list, White List....goes back to the 1730 coming a formal define in 1779 for english but there was formal define in french in 1775 so some of the usage was before whitelist was a allow list it was a list of Caucasian. Yes 1775 french you have used a lot in the diplomatic circles in england such as immigration.

The history around blacklist, whitelist and it usages get really horrible. Understanding the 1775(french) 1779(english) formal define that to some people says blacklist is them and then blacklist having a negative meaning as a deny list causes them to get upset.

Whitelist being allow list in 1776 was in direct conflict with the usage by immigration at the time. If you have not worked out this is historic bastard move that party plays into the White Australia policy and a few other countries that anyone one on white list is to be allowed.

There is history why people could be upset over blacklist and whitelist due to how the multi defines of those words have interacted to cause some horrible treatment cases.

The worst part is the blacklist and whitelist being used for race is still in use. So in one way blacklist an whitelist has too many defines and some of those defines need to be culled.

First. When blacklist was used for the first time, it was not in a racial content, but rather based on the assumption that the dark tunnel was evil, and the one with light was good.

Second. The ones who do use blacklist/whitelist is a small minority. That should not hinder us from using blacklist/whitelist the normal metaphoric way though. I can't believe you advocate to its removal.

[lucrus]

First. When blacklist was used for the first time, it was not in a racial content, but rather based on the assumption that the dark tunnel was evil, and the one with light was good.

Second. The ones who do use blacklist/whitelist is a small minority. That should not hinder us from using blacklist/whitelist the normal metaphoric way though. I can't believe you advocate to its removal.

I wish I knew english enough to take active part into this discussion, but, since I don't, I just quote what I think is the best reply so far.

[smitty3268]

I really don't give a rats ass whether someone calls it a blacklist or denylist.

It's extremely obvious what it means either way.

The people who obsess about this kind of stuff are weird.

[oiaohm]

First. When blacklist was used for the first time, it was not in a racial content, but rather based on the assumption that the dark tunnel was evil, and the one with light was good.

Might write me down in the black List of those That have nor Fire, nor Spirit of their own
This is the first usage. 1639 no its not used in the "dark tunnel was evil, and the one with light was good."

The first usage dark being secret with black list, Not good or evil. The good and evil bit is 1660 with Charles II. In the dark meaning hidden/secret you have forgot about. Just because something is hidden/secret will not mean you will not know about it yourself.

Dark and light have many different meanings. Evil and Good is only one hidden and known is another. Yes people due to current day usage presumes that the first usage of black list has to be the dark for evil not the dark for secret/hidden/private. Yes the time frame is very critical use of dark for secret/hidden/private is common for the 100 years before Charles II. This is why the black book reference in 1590 is also off.

Yes Charles II 1660 who takes black list to dark being evil. This is the second major usage of black list. Please note this was a so called secret/hidden/private list of Charles II that he wrote people he wanted to be rid of so wanting to call evil as the process of deny. Yes this is the first deny list usage of blacklist. Lets just say Charles II was not good at keeping secrets because we well and truly know about the 1660 list.

Second. The ones who do use blacklist/whitelist is a small minority. That should not hinder us from using blacklist/whitelist the normal metaphoric way though. I can't believe you advocate to its removal.

No my problem with blacklist is that it has 3 historic meanings that don't 100 percent line up with each other.

Blacklist being a secret list is not blacklist being a deny list and is not blacklist being a list of a people owning to a so called made up race. Blacklist has been redefined 3 times. Due to it being based on the word black it could be redefined again. Same with whitelist. Colors commonly change there meaning over time.

Allow and deny list is different the Allow and deny words have strongly defined meaning that have not changed as long as the language english has existed.

tildearrow a lot of people are like you who mistakenly think that dark being evil and light being good has been constant though the history of the english language. The reality it has not been. “Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light” (2 Corinthians 11:14). This line in the bible has caused some interesting problem how it was translated and handled at the time by religion leaders in England. This leads horrible things like light being treated as possible evil so leading to some horrible housing being classed as acceptable. Yes this lead to in the middle ages that black is a sign of authority and being good this is why judges and magistrates still where black today because they are so called good people.

1639 turns out to be in the transition space between when black was consider good to black being considered evil. Before black is considered evil again in the english language its considered secret. Yes Charles II 1660 is the start of the modern dark being evil again but judges and magistrates keep on wearing black as good from the middle ages time frame. Its a real surprise to a lot of people that early modern english black is good and light is bad due to a religion stuff up reading the bible it also lead to some of the in cave christian churches from that time frame.

Its really funny.
Black=evil then Black=good because someone miss read the bible that roughy 1000 years of history screw-up leading to judges, magistrates nuns.... wearing black even in the current day. With out the screw think of all those wearing white then you have about 100 years of black being secret/hidden then due to a king being a jackass in a lot of ways Black returns to being evil again. Yes in the time frame modern english was created dark starts as good comes secret/hidden then comes evil again.

The middle ages being called the dark ages also part a reference to this time frame have the define of dark and light inverted to what we would normally expect,

"dark tunnel was evil, and the one with light was good."
This historically is not a constant and does not apply when handling early english text in fact its completely backwards for early modern english text. So yes early modern english person if you said black list would think its the allow list and the white list is the deny list due to their concept of light and dark because that was correct in the middle age/dark age. Of course tell that person this is a allow list and this is a deny list would have exactly the same meaning as current day.

Black and white alignment to good and evil is not a constant.

My point of view is we have better more stable meaning words than blacklist and whitelist. Words that have been stable in meaning for the complete time the english language has existed in allow and deny.