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  • #31
    Originally posted by Djhg2000 View Post
    Free speech as a law exists because we used to morally align with it as a concept, not the other way around. If you need a law to accept free speech as a concept then it just means you're more authoritarian than liberal.
    Free speech as a law (constitution article) exists to limit the government's otherwise absolute power. As said in the comic, it's there only to make sure that the government does not abuse its power to shut up dissidents.

    It does not apply between individuals, you have no right to force people to listen to whatever you have to say, especially if you are a guest in a private place.

    Really, if you suck so much at convincing people that you need to force them to listen to you, then you have failed and you should gtfo, you like it or not.

    Ideas aren't shared by force, you little shits need to learn this.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
      Free speech as a law (constitution article) exists to limit the government's otherwise absolute power. As said in the comic, it's there only to make sure that the government does not abuse its power to shut up dissidents.

      It does not apply between individuals, you have no right to force people to listen to whatever you have to say, especially if you are a guest in a private place.

      Really, if you suck so much at convincing people that you need to force them to listen to you, then you have failed and you should gtfo, you like it or not.

      Ideas aren't shared by force, you little shits need to learn this.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        Free speech as a law (constitution article) exists to limit the government's otherwise absolute power. As said in the comic, it's there only to make sure that the government does not abuse its power to shut up dissidents.
        You do realize morale and laws are different things, right?

        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        It does not apply between individuals, you have no right to force people to listen to whatever you have to say, especially if you are a guest in a private place.
        That doesn't even make sense. Nobody but yourself is forcing you to listen to anyone here.

        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        Really, if you suck so much at convincing people that you need to force them to listen to you, then you have failed and you should gtfo, you like it or not.
        I agree, but I also don't see how that applies to an online forum with no physical presence beyond the server it's running on and its emitted signals. It's not like you're locked into a conference room or anything. Although, if by chance you are locked into a room, please contact someone for help immediately.

        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        Ideas aren't shared by force, you little shits need to learn this.
        Just a hint; they aren't shared by calling people "little shits" either.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Djhg2000 View Post
          You do realize morale and laws are different things, right?
          Yes, in this case it's also morally wrong to listen to everyone regardless of how wrong they are.

          People need feedback to know when they are doing something wrong. If you provide positive reinforcement for everything then people will never grow, nor learn.

          That doesn't even make sense. Nobody but yourself is forcing you to listen to anyone here.
          Lol yeah right. Me and all people complaining about his trolling and wanting him banned or for the very least have the "ignore function" (i.e. auto-hide his posts for their user) are all a figment of your imagination. None of us is real. Stop talking to yourself.

          I agree, but I also don't see how that applies to an online forum with no physical presence beyond the server it's running on and its emitted signals.
          That's no different from a physical discussion between people, because that's what people do in forums, you know, the medium does not matter.
          The main difference is that none can suddenly bitch-slap idiots, nor affect the social status of other people in the forum in any way, so people feel more free to troll.

          If you troll so hard in real life, then you will not have many friends, and even family will try to avoid you.

          It's not like you're locked into a conference room or anything. Although, if by chance you are locked into a room, please contact someone for help immediately.
          Well no, we (phoroinix readers) are kinda limited to this place if we want to interact with each other.

          You can't just go and say "hey good phoronix people, let's migrate to my own forum with blackjack and hookers", we both know it does not work like that.

          Why should we have to go away because someone else is a fucking troll. Why can't the troll be the one that goes away.

          Just a hint; they aren't shared by calling people "little shits" either.
          That's because I'm currently bashing people who disagree with the Truth. You know I'm not so mad to think I can convince everyone. I'm not debianxfce.
          Last edited by starshipeleven; 06-04-2019, 03:25 AM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

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            • #36
              Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
              Yes, in this case it's also morally wrong to listen to everyone regardless of how wrong they are.
              That's not how morals work.

              Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
              People need feedback to know when they are doing something wrong. If you provide positive reinforcement for everything then people will never grow, nor learn.
              Right, but letting someone have an equal opportunity to speak isn't positive reinforcement.

              Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
              Lol yeah right. Me and all people complaining about his trolling and wanting him banned or for the very least have the "ignore function" (i.e. auto-hide his posts for their user) are all a figment of your imagination. None of us is real. Stop talking to yourself.
              Again that does not make sense. Stop arguing against things I haven't said, you're making it really hard to follow your actual arguments.

              Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
              That's no different from a physical discussion between people, because that's what people do in forums, you know, the medium does not matter.
              The main difference is that none can suddenly bitch-slap idiots, nor affect the social status of other people in the forum in any way, so people feel more free to troll.
              Aside from the fact that "no different" and "main difference" are logic contradictions, it is different because just like you can't hurt anyone and nobody can force you to listen.

              Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
              If you troll so hard in real life, then you will not have many friends, and even family will try to avoid you.
              Not implausible, but that's really far off from being relevant to my point.

              Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
              Well no, we (phoroinix readers) are kinda limited to this place if we want to interact with each other.

              You can't just go and say "hey good phoronix people, let's migrate to my own forum with blackjack and hookers", we both know it does not work like that.
              You totally can and if you want to have a closed community that's the way to go. It's not going to be a lot of fun, but at least you get to keep the trolls out. Phoronix has grown to what it is today because it's an open community.

              Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
              Why should we have to go away because someone else is a fucking troll. Why can't the troll be the one that goes away.
              Because he's a troll from your perspective. From my perspective he/she just doesn't know any better and needs someone to evaluate his/her ideas in order to align them with reality with appropriate feedback. We have equal opportunity to give feedback you know.

              Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
              That's because I'm currently bashing people who disagree with the Truth. You know I'm not so mad to think I can convince everyone. I'm not debianxfce.
              You're not the arbiter of the one truth either. Just because some people may disagree with you doesn't make them heretics. Nor does it make people "little shits".

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Djhg2000 View Post

                That's not how morals work.
                If starshipeleven thinks that it's immoral to listen to people who are beyond wrong and thus encouraging them to keep being wrong and thus never give them a chance of understanding that they are wrong, then that is exactly how morals work. That might not be a part of your morals but then morals are not objective either.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by F.Ultra View Post

                  If starshipeleven thinks that it's immoral to listen to people who are beyond wrong and thus encouraging them to keep being wrong and thus never give them a chance of understanding that they are wrong, then that is exactly how morals work. That might not be a part of your morals but then morals are not objective either.
                  But to starshipeleven, not getting banned is somehow encouragement. Not getting banned and listening are not equivalent actions, in fact the former is inaction and the latter a passive unidirectional action. With the amount of correcting feedback debianxfce is getting I'm really not seeing the encouragement part of the argument.

                  Also, do note how the first reply to me in this thread started out by countering my argument against censorship as a concept with a comic about the scope of the 1st amendment of the US constitution.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Djhg2000 View Post

                    But to starshipeleven, not getting banned is somehow encouragement. Not getting banned and listening are not equivalent actions, in fact the former is inaction and the latter a passive unidirectional action. With the amount of correcting feedback debianxfce is getting I'm really not seeing the encouragement part of the argument.

                    Also, do note how the first reply to me in this thread started out by countering my argument against censorship as a concept with a comic about the scope of the 1st amendment of the US constitution.
                    That is between you and him, all I did was reply to your "that is not how morals work" since that is exactly how morals work. And for the record, no I don't think that debianxfce should be banned either (but then I have not examined that question in detail).

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